On the latest episode of the Office Ladies podcast, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey, who played Pam Beesly and Angela, respectively, discuss the episode titled "The Dundies," which spawns the long-standing debate over Pam and Jim’s first kiss. 

Now, here’s what we all can agree on...maybe. Pam and Jim’s lips touch on the "Dundies" episode after she drunkenly yet excitedly returns to the stool next to Jim after accepting the "Whitest Sneakers" award, instead of being the recurring recipient of "World’s Longest Engagement." 

The debate over their first kiss comes down to intentionality. "After she gets her Dundie, Pam kisses Jim on the lips," Fischer admitted, adding, "I did not consider this their first kiss." 

Fischer argues that she wanted to have Pam play up her affectionate side in the moment only have an awkward head turn lead to them locking lips. 

"The intention was that Pam was going for his cheek, and it was one of those moments where he moved his head in a way that I wasn’t expecting and I just followed through," she said. “That was what was in my head as Pam, so I wasn’t thinking that I was intending to kiss his lips...Pam kind of doesn’t register it." 

It’s worth noting that prior to kissing Jim, Pam also plants one on Michael Scott’s cheek after finishing her speech, which supports Fischer’s argument that their "first kiss" was unintentional. However, Fischer reveals that John Krasinski, who played Jim, is firmly of the belief that this was their first kiss. 

"John said that Jim, who is not drunk, was very aware that they just kissed on the lips," she said. "This was a whole conversation that we had off-camera." It’s kinda ironic that John and Jenna are so locked into their respective characters that they cannot help but mirror their perspectives towards this particular moment. 

A drunk Pam wouldn’t see this as a first kiss because she wasn't entirely there in the moment. Jim has harbored these feelings for her for so long that a kiss is still a kiss in his mind. If you need a third-party point-of-view, Jenna’s Office Ladies co-host Angela is on Krasinski’s side on this debate. 

"You planted one on him," Kinsey said. "I agree with him though. I see both sides. I see for you as a drunk person that you just kind of hug and you’re a little bit sloppy, but I see for him as a sober person that this person he’s in love with just kissed him."

Kinsey also tapped into the mindset of her character when debating her stance on this topic. "In my mind everyone was talking about it at work," she explained. "Trust me. Angela Martin was sitting with Phyllis in a booth at that point, and I’m pretty sure she was like 'Mhmm did you see?'" 

Fischer maintains her stance that their first kiss occurred on the Season 2 finale "Casino Night" when both Jim and Pam were in full possession of their faculties, and well aware of the feelings and intentions in the moment. 

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