Welcome to ON A LEVEL, a new interview series brought to you by Complex UK, which sees our Editor-In-Chief, Joseph ‘JP’ Patterson, get real with some of the greatest talents of now.
In this episode of ON A LEVEL, JP sits down with one of Britain’s most skilled and beloved emcees, Ghetts (fka Ghetto, real name Justin Clarke) to discuss everything from his iconic grime mixtape run and his scene-shaking diss for MTV (in which JP was dissed) to his thoughts on his placement in our Top 50 UK rappers list, all things On Purpose, With Purpose, his faith in God and Jesus, and why he wants to do up farm life like Fekky in the not-too-distant future. Some of the many highlights from this interview have been transcribed and lightly edited for clarity, below.
“I, as a person who believes in God, should never be embarrassed to tell you about God and why my ability—the reason why I’m breathing!—every blessing that I’ve got, the food on my table [is because of him].”
On winning the Pioneer Award at the 2024 MOBO Awards...
“I had to look at it from a few different perspectives because, sometimes, you feel like they’re saying it’s your ‘breakthrough year’; sometimes, you feel like people have missed your breakthrough. So I had to look through it from a grateful perspective. That’s why my speech is like that, because it’s not all the time that we think that we deserve something, others feel the same way. And that’s why the bigger thing is really about not seeking validation, but still being grateful and being graceful when you accept it. At the end of the day, how we feel about ourselves is not how everyone is always going to feel about us. So I was very grateful for it, very grateful for the award. And grateful to perform also.”
On knowing he was blessed with a gift since his N.A.S.T.Y Crew days...
“I’d be lying if I said I didn’t know [I was gifted]. Where I’m coming from, that’s always what’s driven me, to just know what my capabilities are... Even as I sit here before you today, I can see myself even ten years from now. I’ve always been a visionary—not even just for myself, but for us as a culture, making music when we had to convince people that UK music was even good enough. I’ve been doing it from that time. So, I guess, I’ve always been able to know that it was going to change… My family are very much confident people, from all aspects. Even in my kids as well, I see it’s just in them.”
On dissing MTV in 2010 with “Who’s On The Panel?”, and his No. 8 ranking in Complex UK’s 50 Best British Rappers Of All Time list...
“I’ll never be happy unless I’m number one, but [the list] wasn’t a thing that I feel bothered me where I’m at within myself—at this point. It’s a thing where I look at it and just say, ‘These are different people’s opinions.’ I don’t look at someone who has a different opinion from now me and feel like, ‘Fuck you!’ I’m cool. You have that opinion. That’s fine. I have an opinion of myself, which I believe is damn near fact. But now that you're here in front of me, JP, one thing I will say is that I definitely should be higher up on that list, just for the fact alone I gave it its level of relevancy.”
On growing personally and professionally...
“Coming out as an artist back then, dealing with different factors of our lives, when people would come up to [I had to have my guard up]. I’ve been in situations where I don’t know who is who or what’s what, and you could even be laughing and joking and something arises and becomes a mad situation. So you’re just always on edge, wary, and have that stance. Even when I see yutes now like how I was, I have the understanding of why they’re like that. It takes a lot to break those barriers and get a warm response for somebody who’s thinking about these different situations a lot. So, I guess, if people got to know me on a more personal level, they could see, ‘My man’s proper cool.’ But there were certain times I was seen to be the aggressor more than anything… We’re in a space now, though, where your concentration isn’t me and my concentration isn’t you, so everyone’s just cracking on with their own lives and what they need to do and what they need to build, so we don't have those worries. It’s very much different now.”
“I’m still very much a conflicted human being, I’ll be honest with you. Conflicted in terms of, do you want the things of the world, or do you want—beyond that—something that can’t be taken away from you at any time?”
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On his mixtape run: from 2000 & Life to Ghetto Gospel, Freedom Of Speech to Calm Before The Storm. And if Ghetto Gospel laid the foundations for Stormzy’s Gang Signs & Prayer...
“I only agree with that because me and [Stormzy] have had certain conversations about music that he’s come up on and what he was inspired by. And then, the mixtape run—I did myself a disservice by calling some of these mixtapes. I actually did myself a disservice, if I’m being super honest with you; Ghetto Gospel, Freedom Of Speech… My favourite, though, would have to be 2000 & Life, because you never forget that feeling of creating your very first project and having a collection of tunes, a collective of songs, and putting them together. It felt amazing. Till this day, having one, then having two, then having three, and now you’re listening to yourself four to five times in a row, it feels amazing. I can’t relive that experience.”
On his faith in God and Jesus...
“I, as a person who believes in God, should never be embarrassed to tell you about God and why my ability—the reason why I’m breathing!—every blessing that I’ve got, the food on my table [is because of him].” And then people argue and say, ‘Nah, it’s you that did that.’ But they don’t know what you’re dealing with internally or what you’ve been praying for or what you’ve gone through to this point where your faith might not have been so strong and you can see the difference in your life. I had to pattern up and get back in touch with the source, and I saw my life change for the better. So now, when you’re in a space that you’re happy about, man can’t just turn man’s back to God. I’m on a thing where it’s like, ‘God, let me know what you want me to do with the platform. Let me know. Let me know!’ I’m moving like that now.
“At the end of the day, man’s a soldier [for God], so I can’t be embarrassed to worship him. I’m not perfect, but I’m willing to let people know that there’s something better out there, something bigger than us. All of these stupid little sayings like ‘you only live once.’ Who the fuck told you that?! This is all just critical thinking. So while I’m here on earth, because the truth is this—one day—what’s going to happen, and it’s scary to even think about, I’m going to stand before the creator and he’s going to ask me certain questions. And one of those questions might be: ‘What did you do with the ability and platform I gave you?’ If I’ve got nothing to point to, I’m gonna be in big trouble.”
On creating new album On Purpose, With Purpose...
“I’m still very much a conflicted human being, I’ll be honest with you. Conflicted in terms of, do you want the things of the world, or do you want—beyond that—something that can’t be taken away from you at any time? Because when you want the things of the world, you’re going to play by the rules of the world. I had to have that conversation with myself because man battle with that. So when I was creating this album, my writing was intentional, but because I don’t plan or have beats sent to me, it’s really spiritual—like, my actual process. I’m looking for how I want the album to be presented, what I want to say during this presentation, what I want it to represent and who I want it to talk to.”
On working with Kano and Wretch 32 on the track “Mount Rushmore”...
“What’s strange is that we’re not in the studio frequently together, but we’re all in contact with each other—all the time. So it was just having a conversation about what we wanted to do. What I think is wicked about this track is that it’s called ‘Mount Rushmore’, so people have this view of it being about ‘I’m the best! I’m the best!’ But not one of us mention that. Not one! And that just shows where we’re at with it. Not one person’s rapping about rapping. You just hear three different people speaking about their lives—which is beautiful.”
On his Top 5 UK rappers of all time...
“That’s easy: [me], Wretch, Kano, Giggs… I’ve only really got four. Because my five changes. Too often my five changes depending on what the people do, whereas I’ve got those that don’t really change for me. They’re consistent and no matter how I feel about a project, I have an understanding of this person’s fearlessness in what they’re doing, and that’s what I like... I’m not always gonna super-love everything an artist that I’ve been following for a long period of time does. But, sometimes, it’s that fearlessness, what they’re trying there and where they get to next; it’s like, ‘Oooh! You wouldn’t have even got to that without that. I see what’s going on here.’ But yeah, my fifth’s kinda like the obvious names sometimes... Like, a Skep might be my fifth sometimes. It just changes too much.”
On his hopes and dreams for 2024 and beyond...
“My hopes and dreams are that my family stays well, everybody stays in good health and we cherish what we already have. We’re all conditioned to chase, in a bad way. We’ve all got bills to pay. It gets scary! No matter where you are, financially, it gets scary because with more financial stuff comes more responsibilities—no matter where you are. The truth is this: we’re just going round in circles. Every time I climb, there’s more and I just think, ‘Bro! when is it going to stop?’ I just wanna be happy. I’d be watching Fekky farming and I think bro’s got it right! I rang him one day, like, ‘Yo, man, what’s the price on them farms?’ This is the kind of headspace I think I will thrive in as a human being. I can see it now.”
Stream Ghetts’ latest album, On Purpose, With Purpose, below.
