Ed. Note: If you haven’t watched this week’s episode of Industry, look away. Spoilers for Episode 5 are ahead.
Harper Stern (Myha’la Herrold) is trying to keep it together in this week’s episode of Industry. In the middle of a meeting with a huge client, Harper is going through a number of things. Sure, she’s hungover, still high (either on meth or the seemingly copious amount of Berlin club drugs from the night before), or both. But the real reason for her current state is likely an overwhelming sense of emptiness.
Harper didn’t come to Berlin to meet with this client—not really—but to track down her long-lost brother, John Daniel (Aiden Bradley). She finds him—and more than she bargained for in the process. The attempted reunion ends poorly, leaving Harper more alone than ever before; Herrold’s expression and physicality in this scene are the punctuation at the end of that horrible sentence. “I was a little bit intimidated by the challenge—but also excited,” Herrold told Complex of the meeting between the two. “It was a necessary emotional height because of the fact they’re meeting after so many years.”
Hot off of the A24 thriller Bodies Bodies Bodies and soon to be seen alongside Julia Roberts, Mahershala Ali, and Ethan Hawke in Netflix’s Leave the World Behind from Mr. Robot creator Sam Esmail, Herrold’s stock (pardon the pun) is on a meteoric rise. (Oh, and she’s going to be in the next season of Black Mirror, too). Herrold’s performance in Season 2’s Episode 5, “Kitchen Season,” further cements her as a bright new star.
In the aftermath of the episode, Complex spoke with the Industry star over Zoom for a deep conversation about Harper’s journey, working alongside her friend and co-star Marisa Abela, Ken Leung’s improv skills, what song Harper listened to on the way back from Berlin, and much more. (This interview has been condensed and edited for length and clarity.)
You’ve had a crazy, exciting few weeks. What’s it been like?
The last few weeks—well, I’ll say like the last month—have been pretty exciting, busy, hectic, [and] filled with a lot of love and appreciation for me. Then for all the things I’ve gotten to do and share with the people I love in these projects that are coming out. It’s been pretty crazy. Then I left the country. So now I’m on the other side of the world, watching some of it play out from a distance, which has been actually kind of nice because I did the crazy press tour, and then everything came out, and then blah, blah. Then I got on a plane. I was like, “Oh, now I’m done with that.” But I’m not, because here I am [Laughs].
Is it surreal to be in a place where you’re still seeing it, but you’re removed from it? Does that give you more of a perspective on it?
I mean, kind of—except that I’m distracted by something else. My focus is split at the moment, and I mostly have to focus on what it is that I’m doing here. So, this is a nice reminder that it’s still going on. Like, I’ll check Twitter or whatever it is every week just to see how things are doing. It’s weird being split in this way, working on something new and still [having] my mind partially in this thing that’s happening somewhere else. It’s strange, really.
Let’s shift to Industry. Episode 5 is heavy. How much of that did you know ahead of time versus reading it on the page when you got the script?
I didn’t know the nitty-gritty details. All I knew ahead of time is that they were gonna meet. When I got the script [that] was when I found out what they do together. [Laughs.]
Like, how do you figure out how to get to the place a person needs to be, to do what they do? I was a little bit intimidated by the challenge—but also excited. It was a necessary emotional height because of the fact they’re meeting after so many years. You find out about how their lives have been going through an aggressive call out that to Harper [that] makes no sense to her. I was both excited and scared.
Did you lean on Konrad and Mickey to help you through that nervousness? What was your process for working through that?
I always take a bit of nervousness and excitement as a good catalyst. I know if I’m nervous or excited to do something before I’m doing it that there’s gonna be nice energy there. But absolutely; we talked through everything cause I was like, “Okay, where is she enough? Like, like you have to explain to me how deep this is for her to do methamphetamines.”
I think getting her brother’s perspective on life was finally coming to understand what it has been like for him to be away and what it’s like to see her again and how heartbreaking that would be for her justified the whole thing. It solidified for me how much her entire existence has been hung on this moment and the potential that they could be a family again. But yeah, absolutely. They’re always available to us every episode, all the time, whenever we need them. We do lean on them a lot.
How much of an opportunity did you have to sit down with Aiden Bradley [the actor who plays John Daniel] beforehand and talk through your characters’ past to fill in the gaps in their family history? Or was that something you both figured out on the days when you were shooting?
We had some opportunity to meet ahead of time. We had like a week or something. We just hung out, really, because I think you can do what’s on the page, but chemistry isn’t something you can just dig out of nowhere—unless you’re just like a really good actor [Laughs.] Even then, it’s not really chemistry; it’s just skill. So we just got to know each other and built a mutual like and respect for each other so that when we came to the heartbreaking moments, it mattered because, on a level, we did care about each other.
There were some things that we weren’t exactly sure about that we did—it wasn’t exactly like we made firm decisions, but we were like, “Oh, this could have looked like this, which would make this make sense. What are some of the things that they did together?” But they did spend so much of their adult life apart. So really, a lot of that was him deciding what he had been doing and why he would feel so strongly about her coming back in this way, which is in the script as well. It wasn’t a lot of detail. It was really just us getting to know each other and then going for it on the day.
When I chatted with Ken [Leung], he spoke about the environment that Konrad and Mickey have created for you all to play in. Did you all have to fight for that a bit, or was it just a natural extension of how their creative process worked?
From the beginning, Mickey and Konrad trusted us, which was refreshing. They were like, “You guys are great and know these characters well, so do what you need to do.” Obviously, with something like this that is so technical, there’s not a tremendous amount of room for improv when it comes to the jargon or how the business works. That’s not really how it is. But as soon as we really started to build the personalities of these characters, like midway through Season 1, they then started to write in our voices. So it really felt like they paid attention to us, and they were writing for us. So there were some stuff in there that I would have ad-libbed if they hadn’t put it in.
Since we’ve made it this far, we have just built such a strong relationship with them that they trust our instincts. We are so much a part of these characters since we’re there from their inception that they do trust us. They do get excited when we add a little something in there, and it’s usually stuff that gives you a taste of the person’s personality. I think Ken has a great—Ken and Alex—have a great ad lib in—I wanna say it’s Episode 2—where he says, “He looked like George Clooney,” and Ken says, “George Clooney looks like me.” That was not in the script. They’re generous with us.
Was there any specific moment that was ad-libbed in Episode 5? I’m thinking of one that could have been, but I’m curious if there’s anything that stands out that we may not know.
Not that I can remember. There’s one moment that I remember that wasn’t me at all. It was Caoilfhionn [Dunne] who plays Jackie. It didn’t end up in the cut, but there was something there. Then also, something that didn’t end up in the cut was me and Marisa talking to each other at the dinner table right before she goes into the kitchen scene to see her brother. But what are you thinking about?
I was curious if the “Ya Rule” moment was already there or if that was something you two found.
[Laughs.] That was in the script.
Okay. That’s pretty good.
But that moment was hilarious. The first time we rolled on it, we did end up just absolutely cracking up, and some ad-libs came—they didn’t end up in the final cut, but that’s funny that you say that.
It felt like such a great reflection of both of your characters. Harper and Yas have had some tension this year, which made this quiet moment—this brokered peace, so to speak—so much sweeter. Was it nice for you and Marisa to have this scene after so much tension?
Yeah, absolutely. I think we love those moments when we just get to be with each other, but we also love the rest of it where we get to be at each other’s throats. Marisa and I are so close, and whenever we see something like that [scene] on the page, we just get really excited to like throw darts at each other in this safe place. I don’t know if that’s like [a] weird masochistic thing, and we just love to pretend to be mean to each other. I think it’s just because we have built such a strong, personal relationship and a strong work relationship that we can go to the extremes with each other, and that’s exciting for us as artists. But then we get to have like a sweet, funny moment. It’s always a little treat for us cause it doesn’t happen that often [Laughs.]
I’m sure it’s like the same situation with any close friend group where it’s sometimes fun to take the piss out of your friends.
Absolutely. I know if I’m getting roasted that the person really cares about me [Laughs.]
From your perspective, how heartbreaking do you think it was for Harper to be this close to finding someone to trust, only not to have it happen for her?
This was her saving grace, [the] last and only option, her only family. Like real family that she believed she would have a home with. We understand now that their relationship with their mother is shit. I think she felt he would be her only ally and the person that she could really have, like a real love with, for, and receiving. I think it’s a total shock to her that he has all these feelings about what happened with them and towards her. I think that was sort of the nail in her coffin of [thinking] love is not real. There’s no redeeming qualities in life. This is a dog-eat-dog situation. It doesn’t matter who it is, but no one is safe, nothing is safe, and she is truly completely alone. I think it was the most heartbreaking thing that could have happened to her.
Do you think that Harper’s mom would like the person that she’s become now at the end of this episode?
I don’t think there’s anything that Harper could do that wouldn’t be met with a double-edged sword. It’s clear that her mother has always pushed them to be towards success or to some version of success that she wanted, which drove them both away—JD in a different direction and Harper more towards work. But that is a through-line with like her never being truly satisfied with any sort of gains that she makes. There’s always a “Well, what’s next, what’s more, what’s better. I have to be at the top. And if I’m the top, I have to make a new top.”
I don’t think they’ve ever heard the words “I’m proud of you” or “You did a good job.” If they did, it was always coupled with, “But you could have X, Y, Z” or “But this part is bleh.” I don’t even know if she would comment on the kind of person that she’s become unless it was in an attempt to like belittle her.
Jay [Duplass]’s portrayal of Jesse is so interesting to me. How did you work to establish that relationship between the two of you? It’s really hard to tell what Harper and Jesse want from one another, and I’m curious about how the two of you leaned into the nuance of that.
I think similarly to what’s happened with Harper and Eric—because of me and Ken’s relationship on the page—Jesse Bloom read like an erratic, psychotic asshole. He just read like a kind of guy you don’t trust because you never know what he’s gonna do. Which in some ways is exciting and would be exciting to Harper because there’s all of this potential, but it’s also kind of dangerous. Jay is the most non-threatening, wholesome, joyful person ever. The day that I met him, he was like, “Oh my God, I’m so excited to meet you. I love this show. I think you’re great. I can’t wait to work with you.” It was just like good vibes from the get. Jay and I love each other. We really do.
Working with him has been such a pleasure. There is a love that exists in our characters as well, which is muddled and confusing, and you don’t really know what it is, but it ends up being more paternal from his end. I think it just seeps through in our characters because we do have a love for each other, similarly to this strange relationship that Harper and Eric have. You don’t know what the fuck is going on there, but those people love each other. You just don’t know why. But that’s what makes all these relationships on the show so intricate and special is that we all love each other. So no matter what our characters do to each other, love exists in some way.
Jay just fell into the fold of that, which was nice. I appreciated what he brought to Jesse Bloom because, again, on the page, he could have just been disgusting and weird. But Jay brought a strange sort of innocence, a playfulness, and a whimsical element to this guy who you don’t really feel that threatened [by] even though he has the power of the world at the end of his fingertips. He’s somehow still kind of charming. So I thought that was fun for me to play with.
I asked Ken this question, but I’m interested in your perspective on it: when you got the script for Episode 2, did you know at any point that it was going to be as electric as it turned out to be?
I mean, you can never really guess, but I was particularly excited to do the last 10 minutes of that—just to film it. I was excited by it. I knew—because Mickey and Konrad put the music in the script—that [the] Donna Summer tune was in there; that wasn’t anyone else’s that was already on the page. So when I read it, I turned it on, and I was like, “Oh, it’s gonna be epic.” Like at the very least that moment, I was like, “This is so sick.” [Laughs.]
But no, not until I watched it. I was like, “Damn, they really did a good job with this one.” I was very pleased, but you never know. You never really know until it’s out there. I’ve been glad that it’s being received in the way that it is.
How much of the blocking and such was a collaborative process between [director] Birgitte [Stærmose] and you and the rest of the cast? How much did she already have established versus all of you just finding it on the day?
Well, of course, she and all the other directors—we are very lucky to not have any directors who were really prescriptive—but she would just come in and say, “Here’s what I think, here’s the rough sketch. Let me know what you think.” It was super collaborative in that way. She had her shot list, and she was prepared. She knew exactly what she wanted it to look like. And then, of course, add us to the equation; he brought what we know about the show, which influenced a lot of that. There were, of course, some moments where she was like, “That just won’t work.” She was always right. [Laughs.]
You mentioned the Donna Summer song. I know when you spoke with Complex last time, you talked about how you built a playlist for Harper. If you made a new playlist for Season 2, was there one song from that playlist that stands out as the thesis statement for Harper’s arc this season?
Okay. I don’t even know if this is like real, but [Laughs] you’re gonna have to help me because I’m not sure I still have the playlist. The stuff I’ve created—like playlists and stuff for my characters—is always stuff they would listen to alone. No one would know that they’re listening to this, so there’s one song that’s coming to mind. What’s that Kelly Clarkson song about the window? She’s like looking out the window or something.
Oh, hold on. I’m gonna Google this real quick.
I’m gonna find it. It’s like the classic.
Yes.
We should both have known that. That’s like the essential Kelly Clarkson song.
Yeah. That’s the one where she would be like super sad and would never let anyone know that she was listening to Kelly Clarkson’s “Breakaway,” but she was definitely listening to it on the flight back from Berlin, 100 percent.
Industry Season 2 is now available to stream on HBO Max.
