None
In real life, Stephen Graham has one of the most distinctive Liverpudlian accents you’ll ever hear. Yet it was playing a cockney in Guy Ritchie’s Snatch that most people first saw him. And then he forged a sideline playing historical American gangsters in Gangs of New York, Public Enemies and a recurring role as Al Capone in Boardwalk Empire. It’s a testament to his incredible talent that he never once seemed out of place in these role. Yet he kept his native Scouse tongue in his greatest part, the terrifying, but ultimately tragic white nationalist Combo Shane Meadow’s brilliant film and TV saga This Is England.
He has a rare starring role in his latest film, the British drama Orthodox, playing a bare knuckle boxer in a Haredi Jewish community trying to stay on the straight and narrow whilst being manipulated by the criminal underworld. The film is out now on DVD and VOD, and we spoke to Graham about the emotional finale to This Is England 90, the struggles for working class actors, and getting Leonardo DiCaprio to appreciate British football.
What attracted you to Orthodox?
I really liked the concept and the approach it was coming at, and there was more story to tell, so I said yeah. I think it’s important and vital to do proper British films, know what I mean? It doesn’t always have to be for big studios and things like that.
One thing that impressed me a lot was your accent in the film — you have a very distinctive accent in real life….
I’m a scouser and proud of it!
For someone with just a recognisable accent, you’ve played cockneys and Americans incredibly convincingly. Have accents always been something you’ve focused on?
I’m very lucky, I’ve always been good with accents. I’ve got a good ear for them. I’m a good listener, so if I’m in someone’s company for a period of time I can pick the accent up. I remember a teacher said to me that I’d have to loose my accent if I wanted to make it. She said it was too strong.
History is great to look back on, but what’s happening right now is the story we need to be telling
Related to that, there’s been a lot of talk recently about it being a lot harder for young working class actors to make it these days, and all we see on our screens now are posh kids and Downton Abbey. Do you think it’s harder for working class kids to make it now than it was when you started?
It’s a difficult one, that. I choose to believe that irrespective of difficulties we have to overcome, I hope talent will prevail. But yeah, I’d be inclined to agree with that statement. If I was starting off now, my parents certainly wouldn’t have been able to afford to send me to drama school. Back in the day I got a grant. I think it is more difficult now, but as long as people keep striving, they’ll get through. You hit the nail on the head there, you need to make a living. And young lads and young girls coming up from working class families, it is difficult for them to find their opportunities. It is much more difficult than when I started out. But hopefully the likes of myself, and Paddy Considine, and Vicky McClure can be an inspiration and show that it can happen.
And in the same respect, I am personally getting a little bit bored of period dramas on television. I say that, I’m doing one at the minute! But that’s a bit more of blood and guts, and bit more gritty. It’s by Steve Knight, who wrote Peaky Blinders, and stars Tom Hardy. But I do feel we need to be careful that the likes of young people coming from Liverpool, Newcastle, inner cites and places like that, get an opportunity. I mean, no one’s going to cast me as Mr Darcy, as the lord of the manor. They’ll cast me as a man who’s got a fucking alcoholic problem, and three children to raise, and struggling with life. Which is a great role to play, but we need to keep telling those stories. History is great to look back on if we can learn from it, but what’s happening right now is the story we need to be telling.
This Is England finally came to an end last year — what was it like filming that final series?
Immensely emotional. That was ten years of my life. Thomas Turgoose calls me grandad. I known him since he was 14, and now he’s 24, and he’s getting married this year! If you look at it in respect of what we were just talking about, he was given an opportunity by [This Is England director] Shane Meadows, because he believed in his ability and talent. I think as a unit, working the likes of Vicky [McClure], Joe [Gilgun], Andrew Shim, it’s been a beautiful experience, and an amazing ten years of my life. I’m immensely proud and privileged to be a part of it.
[SPOILERS FOR THE FINAL EPISODE] You had a very shocking final scene, being dragged away and beaten, but we never actually see Combo’s final fate…
That’s Shane Meadows for you, he always leaves the door open! You only got a peak through the door of when they dragged me into that room, so it’s up to our imagination what sort of hellish things were going to happen there. To me, I’m dead, but you never know. If Shane convinces me and says that they just gave me a telling off and I left, I’d get my head around that. I trust Shane implicitly. I’ve been very lucky to work with some great directors and he’s the finest director I’ve ever worked with. Just for his compassion and his care with every single person there. I’d jump off a cliff if he asked me to.
I’ll never forget my last day. There was a moment I’ve never experienced before, as I was putting the tattoos on in make-up. It was like saying goodbye to this character. I don’t want to be pretentious or wanky, but because of the enormity of the scene we were doing that day, it was very emotional. The make-up artist was a woman I’ve spent ten years with, who’d been patiently putting these tattoos on my hands for ten years. It was a beautiful moment.
I interviewed the rest of cast when the show came out, and they really seemed like a genuine group of friends, like the characters are. Was it hard for you to be part of that, as you played such a horrible, intimidating character?
I remember when I was first [on set] with little Jack O’Connell. He used to watch me loads. I would chat to everyone, and then I just walk away for ten minutes. And then I’d just get to that space and that character. And then as soon as I’d come back, I’d be in it. And then as soon they said “Cut” I’d be like “Who wants a game of footy!” I remember Jack O’ Connell saying “What are you doing, getting into character?”, and I said “Yeah, I go away for a little bit, get my head into the space, and then come back and try to be that person, with as much honesty and reality as I can. And when they say “Cut”, I’m me again."
And Jack was like “Fucking hell, yeah, ok!”. And that was a sort of thing I tried to instill in [the younger cast], that professionalism — we’ll play [on-set], but when it comes to scene, bang, we’re right in those characters.
I MANAGED TO GET LEONARDO DICAPRIO TO WATCH LIVERPOOL VS MAN UTD WITH ME
How come you’ve ended up playing so many famous American gangsters?
I have no idea at all! They’re great roles to play, but I couldn’t tell you why. It all just came down to the roles, basically. The first one, with Michael Mann in Public Enemies, I put myself on tape, pretending to rob a bank, and he liked it, and wanted me to play Baby Face Nelson. And then with the second one was just that Martin Scorsese wanted me to be Al Capone. It’s just the way the dice have rolled. Like I said, I’m never going to be Mr Darcy, but I’m always going to be the man that kicks Mr Darcy in the balls.
You’re a big Liverpool fan — do you still get to watch the games when you’re in America or on location all over the world?
I do, I even get up at 6am in the morning to watch them! I try and watch as much as I can. I haven’t been to a game in a long time. This is going to sound really, bad, and I don’t know if I should let you print it, but I’ve been to more Leicester games this season! Only because they’re round the corner, I’ve not jumped on the bandwagon! And both my kids are Leicester fans.
Have you tried to get any Hollywood stars into football?
I have once. I managed to get Leonardo DiCaprio to watch a second half with me. It was a bit of a crappy game actually, it was a 0-0. I was like “That’s a great result that, 0-0 with Man United!”. And he was like “ I don’t get it man. There was no goals. No one won.” “Yeah but’s a draw!”. “I don’t understand the draw. Why are you happy about a draw?”.
Are you involved with the Snatch TV show that’s in the works?
No, I don’t think so. I don’t think it’s even got anything to do with Matthew Vaughan or Guy Ritchie. I imagine it would be a younger generation or something.
Would you like to have a cameo in it?
I suppose that could be fun. What I would love is to do another film, that would be great. It would be nice to see what happened to Turkish and Tommy 15 years later.
Was there ever any talk about a sequel?
There was a long time go I think, six years ago maybe. But you never know, we’ll see what happens with the TV series.
You’ve worked with some incredible actors and directors — have you ever been starstruck by any of them?
I’ve never been starstruck, but I suppose it was meeting Gary Oldman when I did Tinker Tailor Solider Spy. Growing up he was always a hero of mine, and I’ve watched all his work. And I think meeting him, my mouth went dry for a moment or two. I felt a bit like a kid again.
But what I think I found the strangest thing was that he just shook my hand, and said “It’s a pleasure to meet you, I love your work. You were amazing in This Is England.” And that was a difficult concept to grasp. The fact that someone that you look up to and admire, for them to turn around and now they’re your peers. It kind of blows my mind a little bit. And he’s a trailblazer, and he went out there and set his own standard. He’s a kid from a similar background to me. I’ve always looked up to him, and sometimes you can meet people you look up to and they don’t turn out to be as nice as what you thought they would be. But he’s a fantastic actor, and a lovely fella.
Orthodox is out now on DVD and VOD.
