Nardwuar, the Human Serviette seems to know everything about everyone, but few seem to know much at all about the 45-year-old journalist. With a fascinating career that spans well over two decades, one that has propelled him from sneaking into backstage areas to rubbing shoulders with high-profile musicians, he's one of the most interesting characters in the music industry.
A couple of Fridays ago, he was speaking at the university that he and I both attended (University of British Columbia—he graduated in '90, I graduated in '12). Nardwuar is one of the most involved alumni. Not only does he still promote the school's radio station, CiTR, but he continues to do his radio show every single Friday. He's been doing the show since 1987.
The room in which the talk was held was packed, chairs placed tightly in rows. Everyone was entranced by Nardwuar, who is not quite as animated as he is in his interviews, but very evidently passionate about his craft. When the talk ended, his fans lingered in hopes of an autograph or a photo. Nardwuar was patient. Genuinely flattered by the attention, he would pose for several pictures with each person, suggesting ways to make each photo better and calling for "quality control" so that everyone had the perfect picture with Nardwuar.
"It's a bit nerve-racking to interview a person who does interviews for a living," I admit before starting the interview.
“It’s good to be nervous,” he says, holding a small bag of apple slices and offering me some. “As I always say: volenti non fit injuria.”
I decline the apple slices, and look back at Nardwuar blankly.
“There’s a latin term called volenti non fit injuria. So, basically, what it means is that, if you’re at a punk rock gig and you jump in the slam pit, what happens? You get slammed. If you’re in journalism, and you jump in the slam pit, what happens? You get slammed. In other words, you accept the fact that you’re gonna get slammed, so once you accept the fact—you’re gonna get slammed—you're alright with it. You accept that these crazy things are going to happen. Most people are fearless once they figure, 'Hey, I’m a journalist. I’m gonna get teased. I’m gonna jump in the pit, and I’m gonna get slammed.' Once you accept that, there’s no problem.”
What’s your pre-interview research process? Do you work on this alone? There seems to be a very intensive process behind it.
Well, every week, I do an interview for my radio show on CiTR. So one interview per week. I spend about a week thinking about who I interview, and the first thing I usually do is, I look at other interviews and I see what other people are asking. I try to ask not what they’re asking. I try to ask the opposite. I try to think off the top of my head, “What would I ask this person?” I think, “Okay, I’m going up Whistler, BC on a chairlift. I’m sitting beside the person I’m supposed to interview. What would I say?
Like, who could be bothered to waste an entire week researching Snoop Doggy Dogg? People are like, “He’s cool, but I’m not gonna spend an entire week.” Well, I could spend months.
What I’m asking actually isn’t that obscure, or isn’t that hard to find out. It’s just most people can’t be bothered to do that. Like, who could be bothered to waste an entire week researching Snoop Doggy Dogg? People are like, “He’s cool, but I’m not gonna spend an entire week.” Well, I could spend months. I love doing it. So anybody could probably get the same information, it’s just that they don’t have the time to do it.
It’s also because I’m nervous. All the time. I’m always nervous, because during my radio show, people phone up and go, “You’re boring. You gotta get a better guest.” This happened just last week. The guy didn’t even realize that I had been doing my show for a long time. But I was appreciative of him phoning in because your friends tell you what’s wrong with you, your enemies let you rot in Hell. So when I’m doing an interview or preparing for an interview, I’m thinking, “Oh god, this CiTR radio listener is gonna hear the interview, or YouTube viewer—are they gonna be bored? I better find some stuff that interests them.” So that spurs me on, too—just being scared, and trying to get that information out there. But I think a lot of people, they’re not scared, and because they are not scared, they don’t look for that information. Like, “Eh, I’m doing this interview, it’ll be no problem.” Well, the minute you’re not scared is the minute you should quit.
Yeah, being driven by fear is a strange way to live, but it’s effective. Looking back at your interviews, which was the most challenging interview that you had to set up?
Well, it probably would’ve been my interview with Nirvana. They were playing in Vancouver over a two-day period, and each day I went and tried to get this thing set up.
Were you denied?
Well, January 3rd and 4th, 1994, Nirvana were scheduled to play in Vancouver at the PNE Forum. They played in Vancouver previously, however I never had the chance to interview the full band. I did interview Krist Novoselic, but I never had the chance to interview the full band. By the time they were in Vancouver, they were super big, and they weren’t really doing any interviews. I previously had interviewed Courtney Love, so I was thinking, “Well, I interviewed Courtney Love, that’s his wife, maybe I can get an interview with Kurt.” So I showed up super early at the PNE Forum, the first day that they were playing, went into the dressing room, left a copy of the interview that I did with Courtney Love—a cassette—on Nirvana’s deli table because they weren’t there yet, and a little note: “Hey Kurt, would you like to do an interview with me? - Nardwuar.”
I heard some noise, and I thought it was Nirvana. It was actually the security guards. So I hid on top of some toilets.
Right then and there, I heard some noise, and I thought it was Nirvana. It was actually the security guards. So I hid on top of some toilets. Unfortunately, I was found, and I was kicked out. I went back home and thought, “At least I tried. I left a note for Kurt, maybe he’ll see it, maybe he’ll give me a call.” The phone rang. I thought, “Oh my god,” but it was actually my friend Leora from CBC, who said, “There are some people from CBC who were going to interview The Butthole Surfers, who are opening for Nirvana, but they can’t make it.” She asked if I’d like to interview The Butthole Surfers for CiTR. I said, “Yeah, sure!”
So I went back down with my buddy Hugh, and we interviewed The Butthole Surfers. Afterwards—it was the same dressing room as Nirvana’s—I went up to Kurt, said, “Hey, it’s Nardwuar. I left you a little note, and I don’t know if you saw it. Here’s a cassette of my interview with Courtney. Would you do an interview with me?” And Kurt said, “Ehhh, maybe one day, but not now.” So I said, “Okay,” and went home. And I was satisfied. I gave it another shot.
Next day, I get a phone call from Hugh again, and he asks if I was going to interview Nirvana, and I told him, “No way, I am not going to interview Nirvana today. That’s it. I had it. It’s not going to happen.” Then he asked me what I was doing that day, and I said “Nothing.” He said, “Exactly!” So I figured I'd try again. I thought they’d be staying at the Four Seasons hotel, so I went there. Who should be getting in the elevator but Dave Grohl! I ran right up to Dave, and went, “Hey Dave, it’s—”
And Dave goes, “I know you! You’re from the band, The Goblins!” I play in the Evaporators and the Goblins, and it’s weird because in the Goblins, we wear sheets over our heads so you can’t see what we look like. So I said, “Thanks Dave, I really appreciate that. I’m also with CiTR radio, and was wondering if I could interview you, and Nirvana, tonight at the PNE forum.” He’s like, “Yeah, sure, I'll put you on the guest list.”
So that night, I headed down again through the media entrance and said to the security guard, “Hi, I’m the guest list!” The people who were working the door, though, were like, “You’re Nardwuar. We kicked you out last night from the back stage. You ain’t on the guest list!” I told them that I really was on the guest list. They told me no, but I said that I spoke to Dave Grohl, and he put me on the guest list. He really put me on the guest list. They said, “No, you’ve been in this town long enough to know that you’ll never, ever get on the guest list.”
The people at the door heard us, and went, “You can’t bring Nardwuar,” and Courtney Love turns to them and says, “That’s my cousin Nardwuar; I can take him wherever I want.”
Right then and there, by mistake, Kurt and Courtney walked in the media entrance. I yelled at Kurt and Courtney, “Hey, Kurt and Courtney! It’s me!” Courtney yelled down at me, “Hey Nardwuar, I listened to that cassette that you gave Kurt. You gotta learn to edit me.” I said, “Okay, thanks. I appreciate that, but can I come backstage with you?” She said, “Yeah, sure, no problem.” The people at the door heard us, and went, “You can’t bring Nardwuar,” and Courtney Love turns to them and says, “That’s my cousin Nardwuar; I can take him wherever I want.”
The next thing you know, I was backstage, I went up to Courtney and asked if I could interview Kurt, and she said, “Go ahead and ask him.” I asked him, and... it happened!
It was a little awkward to watch, though. Kurt didn’t seem very interested. What was going through your mind as you were conducting the interview?
What was going through my mind was, “Hurray, I got the interview,” because after all that work, I couldn’t believe it. In fact, as I was doing it, I was wondering if the security people would kick me out. I was scared that it wouldn’t happen. It was incredible.
Do you ever feel awkward?
Oh, when do I not feel awkward? I think that should be the question!
[Nardwuar is still holding the apple slices. He eats one and offers them to me. I decline again.]
Do you get offended? I’m thinking about Kid Cudi, who walked out on you, and Nas basically threatened you. Were you offended when that happened?
No, because as I mentioned—volenti in fit injuria. Stuff like that happens. As long as it’s documented, I’m happy. As long as the video tape is capturing it. I’ve done interviews before, when the interview is over, the band that I was interviewing—Skidrow, and heavy metal band Quiet Riot—both destroyed copies of the interview. So the interview never survived. They thought it was making them look dumb. The tapes didn’t even survive. In that case, then it’s awkward. Then I get upset. But as long as the tape doesn’t get destroyed, I’m happy.
Many viewers of yours don’t know this, but you’ve been involved in the music industry for a very long time. In the past 10-15 years, a lot has changed because of technology and the internet. How have you adapted to this change? Did you ever feel the need to reinvent yourself?
Well, when I interview someone, it’s always the same, whether it’s a politician, a pornstar, or musician—I always approach it in the same way.
I guess I was lucky. Early on, when the internet started, a listener of my radio show got Vancouver Film School to build me a website. So, right from the beginning—that was 1996—I’ve had a website. To me, it’s been sort of organic, how it’s gone on and on and on. I just can’t believe very early on in my website that you could do videos. It looked pretty bad, but still, I could get the video out to all these people, and YouTube just took it to another level.
Previously, how I’d get video interviews out to people was by dubbing them onto VHS cassettes, then sending them out personally.
So to me, it’s just been a natural progression. It’s been incredible. Also, CiTR radio went on the internet, and I’ve been able to do podcasts. It’s been great getting this information out to people. Previously, how I’d get video interviews out to people was by dubbing them onto VHS cassettes, then sending them out personally. I dubbed hundreds of VHS cassettes for people. They’d mail me one, I’d fill it up with one of my interviews, and mail it away. I would also do interviews for cable access TV, so I’d have all of them collected.
It must also be awesome to be able to see how many views your videos get now.
Yeah, and of course, the only way that I could tell in the olden days is by physically dubbing, and it was a lot of work. So for me, it’s been amazing that I don’t have to dub the VHS tapes. But I really did dub hundreds of them for people. I also got my interviews out by contributing to different fanzines. I wrote for Flipside Fanzine, which then turned into Razorcake Fanzine, which I still contribute to. My interviews would be transcribed, and that was another way I got my interviews out.
That’s why when I do an interview, I like to videotape the interview, so you can use it for, as we did long ago, cable access or trading tapes. Or as we do now, YouTube. I take the audio for my radio show podcast, then I transcribe it for my website, and also for my magazine.
[Nardwuar offers me the apple slices again. I decline again, this time explaining that I already had lunch.]
People have said that they want me to interview the Tupac hologram, and I would love to!
What do you think about holograms?
People have said that they want me to interview the Tupac hologram, and I would love to!
Over the years, hip-hop and EDM have become more intertwined with mainstream and commercial music. Do you think that the music that DJs and rappers make today is of lesser quality?
I’m not really a good judge at these things. I was given a promo tape of Green Day’s Dookie. Did I hear any hits on it? No. I didn’t. I didn’t hear one hit. I was totally wrong. I would just say that being a part of CiTR radio, I’m exposed to all different types of stuff. To me, I don’t really take notice of what’s going on. I see guys doing the metal show, and they love their metal. I see guys doing the hip-hop show, and they love their hip-hop. I see guys doing the top 40 show, and they love their top 40. Even though maybe I’m not that attracted to it, they’re smiling and having such a good time. I can really enjoy it. I like any music that makes me smile. At first, I only would like punk music. Then someone said to me, “There’s rap,” and then I got into rap, and metal. The more you listen to, you realize that there isn’t just one thing.
What do you think about Kanye West calling himself a creative genius?
I would love an opportunity to interview Kanye West. I don’t know if I’m qualified to comment on that sort of stuff. But I do think that he is a genius in the sense that…
The first time I interviewed Snoop Dogg, I said, “Snoop, there was this rapper out of New York called Tim Dog, and he had a song called "Fuck Compton." What do you think about this?” And I thought he would have a harsh reaction, like, “How dare this guy say fuck Compton!” And what Snoop said to me was very telling. What he said to me was, “It doesn’t matter anymore. He’s not in the game.” Tim Dog wasn’t doing anything anymore; it was years after the fact. I thought that was amazing. Because if you ask a rock ‘n’ roller about an old beef, they’d probably yell at you.
That makes me think about Kanye West—he’s still in the game, he’s still making highly regarded records, he’s still getting number one hits, so there’s something there, definitely. He’s still in the game. You can’t argue about that. He’s been in the game for a long time.
I also like the fact that he samples some garage rock. He sampled the Mojo Men. It’s amazing that he samples garage rock, because I love garage rock. I’d love to have the opportunity to do an interview with him and ask him about these things.
Who would your dream interview—dead or alive—be?
Well, originally, it was Bill Clinton, Neil Young, and Kurt Cobain. I interviewed Nirvana, Neil Young said no to me twice, and I’ve never got Bill Clinton. Nowadays, it’d probably be Obama, Little Richard, and probably Kanye West.
Drake has come very far in the past few years, from playing a character on Degrassi to becoming this larger-than-life rap superstar. How do you think his popularity has affected Canada?
Well, right now, it seems to be off the charts in terms of how it’s affecting Canada. In fact, in the news a few days ago, there was something about Toronto. A football player from Europe, a soccer player, was signing to the Toronto team. He was a highly regarded player, signing to the Toronto team. And the team had Drake phone that player, and tell him about Toronto. The player was like, “I got a phone call from Drake telling me how great Toronto is—hell yeah, I gotta join this team!”
So his influence, he’s really out of control. He’s doing stuff with the Raptors, like Drake Raptors night. And if you get on the phone, and phone people, “Come to my town,” that’s awesome.
So a positive influence.
Yeah! Like he’s phoning people—European football players—to play for a Toronto soccer team, and they’re leaving lucrative contracts to play in Toronto because Drake is phoning them.
[He eats another apple slice. This time, he doesn't offer the bag to me.]
Name three songs that you have in heavy rotation right now.
Number one—I guess I’ve been listening to a lot—is the band that influenced me a huge amount, a band called The Sonics from Tacoma, Washington. They’re a 1960s garage punk band that broke up in ‘67, but got back together again in 2007 are still doing gigs. And they’re one of my favourite bands of all time. My own band, the Evaporators, played a couple of Sonics songs at our first gig. So I’m still listening to them. They’re one of the first bands that I listened to, and I still listen to them over and over and over again.
Another band that I’m really enjoying is the Courtneys from Vancouver. I wanted to interview Courtney Love, and give her a Courtneys record, just like when I interviewed 2 Chainz, I gave him a Chains of Love record. The Courtneys, I am listening to their record. It’s an amazing EP.
The third band that I’ve been listening to is another Vancouver band that’s a soul R&B group called the Ballantynes.
What is one song that you know every single word to?
I’m terrible at memorizing lyrics, especially in my own band. But one song that I’ve always kind of aspired to is called "Surfin’ Bird" by The Trashmen, because all it is, is….
So, you get the idea. That’s the ultimate chant. So “Surfin’ Bird.” And just a little sidenote there, there’s another band from San Francisco, in the mid-’90s called the Trashwomen. And the lead singer’s name was Elka, and her daughter, years later, is known as Kreayshawn.
That’s all from me. Thanks, Nardwuar!
Well, thanks so much Joyce, and Pigeons & Planes. Really appreciate the time. Keep rockin’ in the free world, Joyce, and doot doola doot doo…
Doot doo!
Check out Nardwuar’s website at www.nardwuar.com for tons of audio, video and transcriptions.
