When Wretch 32 dropped his debut project, Learn From My Mixtape, in 2006, everything changed—not just for him, but the entire British music scene he was about to disrupt.
Here we had a grime-inspired rapper from Tottenham, North London, whose very first release was packed with the kind of penmanship US rap’s Mount Rushmore—of every era—would highly likely salute. But while most didn’t know where to place him—was he rap? Was he grime?—being able to flit between the popular sounds of the day only worked in Wretch’s favour, soon joining powerful lyrical forces with Ghetts, Devlin, Mercston and Scorcher in forming The Movement, a short-lived grime-meets-rap outfit whose members continue to make it into GOAT conversations today.
Six studio albums, countless mixtapes, and a number of pop-laced-but-credible-rap singles (“Don’t Go”, “6 Words”) later, Wretch has earned his OG stripes in more ways than one and is now helping the next generation of artists become great as the Creative Director of Universal’s 0207 Def Jam. But is the hunger to push his own, highly-revered pen still there? “Listen,” he says. “Until I feel like I’m not the guy, they’re still going to hear me. I’m in the lab currently, just adding finishing touches to the album. The substance provider has to provide substance! I always aim to enhance English literature, to add my stamp on English literature and be looked at as somebody who did something different with words whenever he put pen to paper in whatever capacity,” adding that he sees himself as more of a “messenger” these days: “I don’t know what that means or what the word is, but I know that I’m here for something.”
As well as being a top-level rhymesmith and an oracle for an exciting new label—whose roster includes none other than star-boy Stormzy—Wretch is also the co-founder of Green Machine, a chain of stores on a mission to spread the gospel of CBD oil’s many health benefits. “We’re coming to be the main franchise and the main chamber,” he says. “Green Machine is coming to take over.” We caught up with the future mogul to find out more.
“The key thing for anyone, for any artist, is to always remain challenged. If you’re a top lyricist, why not write a book? Then you’re a top lyricist and you’re an author. It shifts. Write a play! Challenge Hamilton.”
COMPLEX: Wretch, my guy! Happy New Year. Let’s kick things off with 0207 Def Jam: how has your first year as Creative Director of the label been for you?
Wretch 32: You know what? I think it’s been everything I expected, but at the same time, it’s a whole new process. I was bringing my expertise to the label before I had an official title, so stepping into the role was really an easy transition—working closer with artists, having a lot more ideas around full-rounded campaigns, and things like that. It’s a great place to be… I never, ever saw myself working in this type of infrastructure, but with this team, it’s perfect and it works.
You and the label’s Co-Presidents, Alec and Alex Boateng, go wayback. But how did you initially connect with them back in the day?
Whenever I think back to early memories of me and Alec, it’s always long conversations on the phone about music. I remember being introduced to [BBC Radio] 1Xtra, where he worked, and everything being so new and the building being so polished; the security guard met you downstairs, you go upstairs and everything just felt so, like, wow! It was refreshing to have someone like Twin around—who became a friend and then a brother—knowing that there are people that love music just as much as I love music. There were so many nights on the phone, like: “How are we going to make the game grow?” And, of course, once you know Alec, you come across Alex. With Alex, it was when we were looking after George The Poet and he was at Island. It was like a similar thing to what we’re doing now; he understood that I’d been in a label situation and I understood how it works. We were trying to get the best out of George and just spark different ideas, and that was probably the first time working for a label ever crossed my mind, like: “I could actually add value in this building.” That was one random thought years ago and it probably just re-manifested again.
You’ve kinda got a US counterpart now with Snoop Dogg joining Def Jam as Executive Consultant. What do you think it is about rappers—like yourself, like Snoop—that label heads are drawn to? It’s very common in the States to have rappers in high positions at labels, but I can see it becoming more of a thing over here in the next few years.
Definitely! I think it boils down to understanding the artist because we are artists, and being a perfect bridge. No one can speak for an artist like another artist can. If the artist is at the centre, whatever arrow you stick out of it, it would still feel better coming from an artist. And someone like Snoop, you don’t survive two decades in the most cutthroat industry by accident. So there’s something you understand how to do very well, and if you can give 20% of that to newcomers, up-and-coming rappers, singers—whatever—then it can only be beneficial for our company.
Have you had any conversations with Snoop yourself?
Yeah, he did a Zoom with the whole team and we had a good chat. We all chopped it up, asked questions, got some game from the guy, and he told us about what his plans were and how he sees things playing out. I just think it’s strong, man. It shows the company’s trust in the rappers because the beautiful thing about it is we’re not the highest on the radio airplay chart—I doubt we’ll be the highest on the TV airplay chart—but there’s something that we’re doing where our views are higher or our streams are higher and we’re connecting with more people with less resources. There’s some elements of genius there that needed to be worked with.
What makes a good artist—a well-rounded musician—to you?
First and foremost: talent. We can’t bypass that, and we’ve all seen what happens when we try to. I think integrity is key as well. Being a hard worker is, too, because someone without talent and without integrity who works hard can beat someone with talent, so being dedicated to your craft and working hard never stops being important. The fact that we hear stories about Ronaldo—obviously, it’s a different industry—but him being the first one at training and the last one to leave, at that level where he scored all those goals, who the hell are we to not still be in the studio, to not still be listening to new music, to not still be trying to find new producers, to not still be trying to sharpen our sword?
Outside of music, you’ve just opened a chain of CBD stores called Green Machine across the UK. That is big! Congrats. Tell me about that and why you decided to get into this particular industry.
We’re actually the largest company in Europe, in terms of shops. We’ve got a store in Angel, one in Blackheath, one in Cheshunt, one in Crouch End, one in Greenwich, one in Jersey, one in Shoreditch, and one in Southgate. I’ve always looked at what Diddy and Jay-Z are doing; it’s evident that stepping into other domains and applying your skill-set can equal great results, both financially and pushing the culture forward. I think someone like myself, at this point in my career, it’s about thinking: “How can I expand? What can someone like Digga D look at me and say, ‘As well as the music, I like that Wretch done this, but he also has that and I like that as well, and I aspire to do the same.’” Just taking that from them and trying to find my niche, something I can believe in… You know, with me, when I was working out what field I wanted to step into, it had to be something that matched my characteristics—and that’s helping people, building and developing. I get to do all of those things within this company and within this realm because it’s for people’s wellness. I’m also a trusted artist, so I’m not gonna put my name to something where I’m fuckin’ selling a placebo! I’m actually selling something that works and benefits people at the same time.
The majority of the people reading this will know the difference between CBD oil and straight cannabis plants, but can you give us a proper breakdown of what CBD oil is and what the benefits are?
So, CBD is weed without the THC. The THC is what gets you high in weed, so with CBD, we don’t get you high—we just give you all the health benefits. Our body naturally produces what’s in CBD, but our body can’t produce it to the level of the products that we sell. And it’s cannabinoids, so we’re literally topping you up on stuff that you actually need. It adds balance for people that struggle to sleep. For people that suffer from migraines, it can add balance to that. Any type of muscle and joint pains, it can help with that. In terms of the skincare products, that’s for people with eczema or bad skin. If I’m honest with you, when I first sat down with the team, I thought to myself that it sounds like a farce [laughs]. I had no intelligence in this CBD background, so I was thinking, “What is this?” I’ve got family members that have different conditions, so I literally bought everything and I went and gave it to different people. I said, “Look, I have no ties with this company. You suffer from headaches, so take this and just tell me what happens.” Everybody came back and was like, “Rah! I couldn’t sleep, but now I’m getting a great night’s sleep.” “My acne has cleared up!” “The pains that I was suffering in my legs have now gone!” After that, I did more reading up on it, then I invested in it, invested time, and was like, “You know what? This is actually the future and, at some point, I see this replacing medicine.” It’s a natural alternative to medicine so I really do see that happening.
Do you think the legalisation of weed in the UK is overdue at this point?
We’re heading in a direction where it will be legalised soon. Malta just became the first European country to legalise it, and [Mayor of London] Sadiq Khan recently announced plans to decriminalise it in certain London boroughs. There’s so many different health benefits with it, bro. It does has a negative stigma, but it’s not because we feel like it’s about getting us higher and Rastafari… It brings a lot of balance to the body and even the NHS know that because there have been a few occasions where they’ve actually prescribed it over the counter. So you can see where we’re heading. I guess, for the government, it would just be them trying to find a way where they can capitalise on it financially. That’s the main thing. Remember, there’s CBD being sold in, like, Tesco, Holland & Barrett—all of these different companies. But Green Machine is coming to take over! We’re coming to be the main franchise and the main chamber.
Are you going to be making and selling your own CBD-based products?
We already have our own products but our plan is to develop more products. Obviously, at some point, we’d love to have our own plot of land and be able to grow because, just within eight stores alone, we’re able to hire a load of staff. It’s actually beneficial for communities as well. So the bigger we are, the more we can expand, the more jobs we can give out. And that’s important, especially in a time like this. Not to over-CBD it, but in terms of the skincare side of things, we have creams full of hyaluronic acids that are really good for the skin, keeps it well moisturised, full of vitamins, and strengthens the skin as well. We’ve also got the best oils, vapes, and teas.
It was reported recently that a guy from London got sentenced to 25 years in prison in Dubai for having CBD oil on him. How wild is that?
There’s places in the world that are going to be zero tolerance. To maintain zero tolerance, you have to have no exceptions, and we can’t be in control of that. I do feel that that’s extreme; I think that’s extremely extreme. At the same time, I understand that the country is trying to maintain and uphold their thing, but that sentence isn’t justified in my eyes.
Back to the music, with all these ventures taking off for you, is the hunger for lyricism still there? You’re one of the country’s top wordsmiths when it comes to rap—and have been for over a decade—so I can’t see that fire burning out any time soon.
My guy, listen: until I feel like I’m not the guy, they’re still gonna hear me. I’m in the lab currently, just adding finishing touches to the album for later this year. We’re coming! The substance provider has to provide substance. But we’re now taking that substance and putting it in other areas—like over the counter [laughs]. The key thing for anyone, for any artist, is to always remain challenged. If you’re a top lyricist, why not write a book? Then you’re a top lyricist and you’re an author. It shifts. Write a play! Challenge Hamilton. For me, I always aim to enhance English literature, to add my stamp on English literature and be looked at as someone who did something different with words whenever he put pen to paper in whatever capacity.
Do you consider yourself one of the GOATs in UK rap?
You know what? Beyond music, I understand my importance. And I know that I’m a messenger. I don’t know what that means or what the word is, but I know that I’m here for something. I’m definitely here for something.
You’ve already done a lot over the course of your career, but do you have any other aspirations that you want to tap into?
I like to step into places where we haven’t been, and I like to do things that haven’t been done. I have ideas leaning towards stuff like theatre and around film scenarios, stuff like that—just different things excite me at this stage now. Before, it was about having the best Fire In The Booth or having the best F64 or having the best feature verse, and then it turns into having the best album. You still have the same love and the same ambition for those things, but then you grow and that’s no longer the ceiling. And I think that’s how you keep on your toes, and if you’re on your toes, then you’re always ready to run.
