Westside Gunn’s story isn’t over just yet.
The East Buffalo rapper released his “last” studio album, And Then You Pray for Me, on Oct. 13, but just because he won’t be releasing full-length solo projects anymore does not mean he’s stepping away from music or his responsibilities as the Super Flygod.
“Now I'm going to go back to my old formula,” Gunn explains to Complex of his new era. “I might go to the studio and make five or six records today and drop it on Friday. I'm going back to them days because I don't want to hold on to nothing. And Super Flygod, he just became a thing; he's here now. He's born, so it's just a different energy with me now.”
And Then You Pray for Me is the sequel to Gunn’s critically acclaimed 2020 album, Pray for Paris, which featured cover art designed by the late Virgil Abloh, whom the rapper shared a close relationship with. Pray for Paris was inspired by Westside Gunn’s first trip to Paris Fashion Week in January 2020, the same show that other rappers like Pop Smoke attended. The experience informed much of that album, but now Gunn is a more traveled man. This time, the Griselda rapper crafted this album while traveling across the globe, working on it in Germany, Egypt, Greece, England, and other countries. “This isn't East Side, Buffalo Westside Gunn,” he says. “This is, ‘I'm smoking on the Nile River about to go ride a camel when I wake up’ Westside Gunn.”
The music is also reflective of an evolved version of Westside Gunn. Known for his proficiency in the boom-bap rap space and owning that lane with cool flows and bars colder than the Buffalo streets, Gunn experiments with different sounds on And Then You Pray for Me. One of the earlier songs on the album, “Kostas,” features the Griselda trio of Gunn, Benny the Butcher, and Conway the Machine rapping over a trap beat produced by Tay Keith. While this isn’t the norm for them, it’s one of the standout tracks on the project. Later, DJ Drama intros Gunn into a Conductor Williams beat on “Suicide in Selfridges,” and he even trades bars with EST Gee on “Steve and Jony.” These are unconventional choices for a Westside Gunn album, but they add to the appeal of And Then You Pray for Me.
Abloh also designed the cover for this final LP, and influenced Gunn in the music despite no longer being with us. “But this time it was like—not to sound crazy—it was like V was talking to me this time like, ‘It's time,’” Gunn says when talking about being at Paris Fashion Week 2022 and feeling a calling to release the album.
Westside Gunn isn’t closing the book to his music career, but with And Then You Pray for Me being the last chapter of his solo studio album run, he’s comfortable knowing that he accomplished everything he set out to do.
“I feel like I did everything I could possibly do in this shit, so my legacy is already my legacy,” Gunn says. “It's something that you can't take away. Griselda never going nowhere. That's cemented in hip-hop history. Even if you don't get it now, they'll get it later, and when you get it later, you're going to understand who Westside Gunn was and how much influence I had in this game.”
With his final studio album, And Then You Pray for Me, out now, Westside Gunn talked to Complex about the making of the project, his influence on rap, his thoughts on Complex lists, questionable album covers, and more.
Is And Then You Pray for Me really your last album?
This is my last solo album; I still wanna do other projects. I still want to do one with Conway [the Machine] and Benny [the Butcher] again. I still want to do a Hall & Nash with bro again. And even if I do like a “Gunnlib” or something like that, I would probably make it an EP, like six or seven songs. So I don't think I have to go in the studio and make 20 records ever again.
But the energy always takes me there, so my projects are always like 15 to 20 [songs]. But now I feel like I can just relax. Now I'm going to go back to my old formula. I might go to the studio and make five or six records today and drop it on Friday. I'm going back to them days because I don't want to hold on to nothing. And Super Flygod, he just became a thing—he's here now. He's born, so it's just a different energy with me now. I wanna dance on beats, but I don't want to wait—I just want to drop them like I used to, man. Get a picture, smack the parental [advisory] on i,t and just drop it. I started that wave, man. Now on Twitter, it can be fucking anything. They're gonna be like, “New Griselda cover.”
That's what I started. It was just like every week I was doing a brand-new song with a crazy cover. I put the parental on it, and we just made that a thing. There's so many things that I've done over the years that now it's a thing.
Is the Trump mug shot ever going to become a Griselda EP cover?
Nah, man, I don’t want to touch that one. I’m good.
Thinking back to Flyest Nigga in Charge, which will turn 20 in two years, you were still rapping about designer clothes even back then. How has your fashion sense grown, and what are the similarities and differences between that version of Westside Gatt and the Gunn that’s closing the book today?
Just access to just more flyer shit. Twenty years ago, Westside was selling weed, crack, guns, you know what I'm saying? So I think it was just more street fashion at that time because it was just a different time. But of course I was fly then, too, but I think just now I got on some shorts that's not even out yet. It's just that the evolution is just having access to different stores in different countries. I’ve always been fly; now the access is just better.
Why did you choose to end it all with a sequel to Pray for Paris?
I feel it don't get no bigger [than this]. This is still Westside Gunn and Virgil Abloh—how can you top this? I don't even want to. If I ended it right now, I'm happy. Like, “Yo, his career was crazy, and he ended it with Virgil on the cover and walked away in the sunset.” Because the thing is I feel like if we was in the NBA or NFL, being in a game 11 years, you old now. Even though I'm getting better, but it's just like, how long am I gonna do this? Like, we talking about my first project came out 20 years ago. So what you want, me to rap for 30 years, 40 years? I got other things going on, and we also can't forget that I'm a designer and I'm into wrestling. There’s other things I want to do now where it's like, “OK, you know, Will Smith was a rapper, then became one of the biggest actors in the world.” I'm just going with the energy. I don't know what I'm going to do or where I'm going to be, but it's more than Westside Gunn and just rapping.
It’s funny you say that, though, because Griselda was pivotal in breaking the mold of how old rappers are supposed to be when they’re popular.
Yeah, there's no age on it—if you dope, you dope. It don't even matter. A lot of the OGs right now in their 50s still spitting dope. I never looked at age ever as an issue, and right now I listen to people that was before me and I listen to the new age. I listen to anything that's dope. That's why I tell people all the time, “Just keep doing you, man.” It's all about timing. A lot of people give up. It took me to get to be 30 years old for mine to pop off, but hey, it is what it is.
The title is obviously a play on Pray for Paris, but can you walk me through its meaning?
Going back to like 2014, I made the song “Eric B” and I said, “Pray for Paris, and then you pray for me.” I said that in 2014, so it was something I've been said. I've been saying that, and when I did the first Pray for Paris with V, I wanted to make it a trilogy at first. So that's why we had so many different Virgil art pieces. Because it was just like we was cooking, we was in the zone, and, you know, when you start brainstorming you all over the place. It's like the sky was the limit and we fed off each other—the energy was always there. But then at the same time, I want to give the people that are now because I don't know how long I'm going to do this for.
And the energy was already there, where I already was feeling like I'm at the end, and I really wanted to throw in the towel. But when I went to Fashion Week this year in January, I got inspired like I did the first time I went, when I did Pray for Paris. So it was the same exact energy when I went out there with V, and I never felt that energy since I made that first Pray for Paris.
So I started cooking it right then in Paris, like I did the first one, and it was like, this has to be the sequel, but I also want to end it right here. I felt like I'm gonna just go hard, and if I had to do one last album, what would my last album sound like? And I just treated it that way. Now it's like, there's no more pressure for me for the rest of my career. If I want to rap again, I could rap. If I don't want to rap again, I'll have to rap. If I just want to curate, if I just want to drop a song once a week, once a month, once every day, whatever I want to do, I could just do and just have fun.
Were there any other versions of the cover, and will they ever be released?
Just the two covers, because that's the thing—why have more? The fourth piece that he made is actually the back cover for both of the covers. So it's like you got the Mona Lisa, then you got the original Pray for Paris. Like I said, I'm just giving you an all-in-one package now—why wait? This is a part of history, the same way people talk about Pray for Paris. They say that's one of the best albums of the decade. People always talk highly of it, and that was just the energy of me going to Paris for the first time, out there with V, sitting front row at the fashion shows for the first time. Just a different kind of energy, that's Pray for Paris. That's in real time. The grimy parts really came [later], because it was the EP at first too. And then when I went back to L.A., that was when it was like Grammy Week, so you got Roc Nation brunch. You got everybody there. I go to Alchemist’s house. Tyler [the Creator] in L.A., Conway in L.A, everybody was in L.A. So I just kept cooking, and then that's how you actually got an album out of it. But like, this time I went to Fashion Week, same energy, but it was just like the same vibe, because I went to other fashion weeks but it wasn't the same vibe. It was like, “Damn, I wish V was here.” But this time it was like—not to sound crazy—it was like V was talking to me this time like, “It's time.”
You also gathered some impressive contributors on this tape. What were your intentions going into choosing the artists and producers who are involved?
The energy was more me just on my Super Flygod shit, because there are different sides of Westside Gunn. I might only give you the boom-bap side because I want to. I'm still in the strip clubs; I'm still in the hood; I'm still doing hood activities. I got the ponytail and [I’m] wearing a $10,000 outfit, but I'm still in a hole in the wall, like places you shouldn't even be at. But I carry myself with respect, and I move a certain way. But I'm a person who still lives life, so I'm not a person who is on some Hollywood shit.
I feel like with this album [I’m] giving you me. This is how I'm feeling. This is me. It's like now I’m just living. If you want to hear that [old] type of Westside Gunn, you got a decade of it—you can have all of that. I was dropping two or three projects a year. You got plenty of that. But now it's just like, this is Super Flygod. This is me not giving a fuck and being me, and if you don't like it, you just don't like it. And what can I say about that? I'm living life.
You said on Twitter recently that you want to try rapping over Afrobeats too.
I always went against the grain from jump. I came out with a title everybody was scared of, for a decade. Certain covers with that parental on it was crazy.
A few years ago Tyler, the Creator thanked you for “making him want to rap again” after he dropped Call Me If You Get Lost. What do you think your biggest influence on rap has been?
Damn, as a whole? See, that's the thing. I got a lot of people that's family in this shit. And I consider a lot of friends as family too. But then I got a lot of sons too. A lot of sons. You know how back in the day you could claim all the kids on the taxes? If you was from the hood, you always just broke until tax time. I love the influence. I was influenced—that’s what the game is about. I know when I'm influencing something because I know who did it.
So I love when people pay respect and homage for it. I don't like when people do it and act like they did it and just running with the shit like they just got superior minds and shit. That's what I don't like. I love Raekwon. I love Ghostface Killah. I love Nas. I went to visit Prodigy when he was in his hospital bed. You see what I'm saying? This is who Westside Gunn is in the culture—give me my respect. Don't act like you did something and running with it. That's my only thing because I give everybody theirs. I want mine.
Speaking of impact, there was a lot of chatter recently about how you’re one of the reasons why Drake was rapping on Conductor Williams’ beats on For All the Dogs. What are your thoughts on these conversations?
Shoutout to the fans.
Has Drake paid his respects to you before?
Drake already paid homage before. He did it on Rap Radar. You don’t gotta keep giving it to me. So obviously there has to be a respect and love. That's how I feel; you go on this page and he follows me. We just don't hang out, and it's not like we can't hang out. We just haven't yet. We might have something in the future coming, who knows? I'm not against nothing like that. It ain't no issues. We in this shit having fun. My blessings is mine, his blessings is his, and it is what it is.
That's what I said about the fans. I don't have to say it—they're gonna tell it. They're going to let you know. That's one thing I know about the Internet. They gonna let you know. If your shit trash, it's trash. If you’re a hater, they gonna let you know you’re a hater. If your shit hot, they will let you know it's hot. If you copying, they will let you know you copying. That's one thing about the Internet, that wi-fi motherfucker boy. So I don't have to say nothing.
You also keep your fans on their toes. Like what were you doing working with Post Malone?
I don't know why you're surprised because I'm the same person that worked with [MF] DOOM. I'm the same person who worked with Sean Price, DMX, Mary J. Blige. I was on Donda; I was on Utopia. I was on the Free Nationals. I got two songs with Slick Rick. I got songs with everybody [you] could think of—Kool G Rap. We have 50 Cent. We had anybody. I did business with everybody under the sun, so what makes Post Malone [surprising]? Post got a song with 21 [Savage]. What's the difference between me and 21?
I just think your boom-bap fans specifically would be surprised to see you two working together.
No, I get what you're saying because a lot of people probably think the same way, man. But first of all, shoutout to Post, because the question was “If you could work with anybody dead or alive,” and the answer was Westside Gunn. So that just lets you know who I am to the culture. That's what I'm saying. So that's what I mean. I love the respect—that's the type of shit that goes far with me. That’s the type of bond that grows stronger because the respect is there. And I can't wait for people to hear it.
Is that something that’s going to be on your future work or his?
I'm down with what he wanna do real because the thing about it is, this is all a blessing to me. I'm from East Side Buffalo again. So what I'm gonna say? “No, I need it for me.” As long as the song come out, it don't even matter. I love when people ask me to collab that I already wanted to collab with. [Rick] Ross hit me yesterday. I think it might be for him and Meek [Mills] album that's coming out soon. But just like that—it's just more opportunity to do fly shit.
I just did another joint with Free Nationals. We got nominated for a Grammy the first time, so we got to go for that second one. I'm working, bro. Westside Gunn is a one-of-one. It's literally never been done in history now. It's never been done in history. My catalog, my career, my feature list, my production list has never been done in history.
How did you connect with Travis Scott for Utopia?
The respect was always there between me and him. I was in Atlanta, and he had a studio session. He was like, “Shit pull up.” I just went over there and vibed out, they put the beat on, and that's what you got. I make everything on the spot, so it's just whatever come out me at that moment.
What do you think of Complex lists and rankings?
Y'all be lacking sometimes. I don't feel like there are ever 10, 20 projects of nothing that's over my shit. There never have been, you know what I'm saying? Last year, it wasn't 10 projects better than 10. Before that it wasn't 10 projects better than [Hitler Wears Hermes]: Side A or Side B. Before that, there wasn't 10 projects better than [Hitler Wears Hermes] 7. Before that, there wasn't 10 projects better than Pray for Paris. Should I keep going? I could keep going. To me, there hasn't been because even just with my curation you got a project with me; the production alone might be Alchemist, Pete Rock, Swizz Beatz. All these legendary producers, then you get to the features. The features be outstanding every time, and I do my part. The sequencing, the cover, the way I approach everything is like, “Yo, do y'all see this art that I'm giving y'all, or is it just y'all want to dick ride this other shit because they got machines?”
These other people that you're talking about, you have to also understand they got machines; they got budgets; they got marketing budgets; they got motherfucking billboards. They doing all of that, and they walking in the room with a 50-man squad. I'm coming in the room by myself, so I deserve my roses just because I'm by myself. I also own Griselda records. So I'm the boss; I'm the artist; I'm the PR; I'm the marketing team; I'm the designer; I'm giving you the art prints. I'm fucking sending off your shirt myself sometimes, and it's still inspiring the biggest artists in the world. That lets you know what time it is.
You’re one of the few rappers who is still very outspoken about feeling like you’re the best. Do you think rap is still as competitive as it was?
Of course it is. Like me personally, I know can't nobody fuck with me. I might bust y'all balls if I ain't on the list because I'll be trying to catch y'all up. Everybody else caught up, or I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing.
Because if you want to just talk about art and putting it together and how it even got there and the work that was put in, you would be respected 10 times more. Because again, Westside Gunn is a person who always had murals painted around the world.
Westside Gunn is still the person that is tattooed on 100 people's bodies. Westside Gunn is a motherfucker that can sit front row at Fashion Week and can do an exhibit at Art Basel, sit front row at every pay per view at both wrestling companies, and still can take his daughter to school the next morning.
That's why can't nobody fuck with me. I'm from East Side, Buffalo. That's why can't nobody fuck them. I’m not going to say I made the lane because I didn't make the lane, but I took it to another level. I show people the ways you can make some bread. There are some people, even OGs that—no disrespect—they were trying to figure out where their next meal was coming from. Griselda came out—now OG is back on tour; OGs is doing merch. It wasn't like that before. It's different times.
Since you’re closing the book on your studio album run, where do you see yourself ranked in terms of all-time rappers?
I don't even care. Just put me in the top 50, because I don't want to say top 10, top 20, top 30. I don't want to do all that shit because there's so many people that I respect. I'm a student. Let me say that that's why I can make a song with EST Gee on this album, but my last album, I just had Black Star, you know what I'm saying? This is Westside Gunn. I had Black Star at Peppa's in Brooklyn shooting a video. Just on my last album. I feel like I did everything I could possibly do in this shit, so my legacy is already my legacy. It's something that you can't take away. Griselda never going nowhere. That's cemented in hip-hop history. Even if you don't get it now, they'll get it later, and when you get it later, you're going to understand who Westside Gunn was and how much influence I had in this game. So it really don't matter about the list, honestly, because I know who I am. But of course, people want their flowers, but just put me on that top 50 curation list, put me in the top five, and I'm good with that because I'm a way better curator than I am MC, even though I'm nice. Me being a dope MC, sometimes I'm so dope, but at the same time, a lot of people don't understand me. And what I mean by that is like a lot of shit go over so many people's heads—like even when I look at the lyrics when they put it up [online], it don't even be my lyrics. It's like, how did you even get that from that?
This is why you don't get what I'm saying, because you don't even understand what I'm saying. If I start talking some jail slang shit, if you've never been in jail, you don't know. If I'm talking some Buffalo slang shit or I'm talking about a street or I'm talking about a designer, if you not fly, you just wasn't at Fashion Week in June, how do you even know who I'm talking about?
You wasn't in Paris in June. So I'm really speaking another language. I'm honestly probably top five if you speak my language. I think I'm the illest in the world if you speak my language, but everybody don't speak French. How can you speak my language if you're not from East Side, Buffalo, and you did fed time and you didn't been in shootouts, and you didn't been in raids, and you didn't lose all your closest people in your life, and you didn't experience shit with your eyes that you never want to see again?
If you never did that, how could you understand my language? If you just went to school your whole life and been spoiled and went to college and now you fucking typing shit talking about who got the best album, how can you tell me who the best album is? You don't speak my language.
So what do you hope fans take away from And Then You Pray for Me?
This is the beginning of everybody just having fun. I was the poster child for boom bap for a decade. We can have fun now, man. Go buy you a nice outfit. Go have fun this weekend, man. Go to the strip club. Get you 1,000 ones. Live life, just live life, man. This is the album for motherfuckers that just got to live life, man, real because this album is Santorini. This album is London. This album is Paris. This album is Copenhagen. This album is Germany. This album is Dubai. This album is Egypt. That's this album. That was all the places I was going during this album. So this isn't East Side, Buffalo Westside Gunn. This is “I'm smoking on the Nile River about to go ride a camel when I wake up” Westside Gunn.
