Rappers and singers might get all the glory, but it’s the producers who actually makes the music. With so many aspiring beatsmiths looming in the shadows, we decided to shed some light on the music game’s often-unsung heroes.

During our first annual ComplexCon in Long Beach, CA, we gathered a few big-name producers to speak about the art of making music for a panel discussion called, “Wax On It: Creating Inspiration and How to Approach Beat Making.” Serving as episode four of our 16-part Complex Conversations series, the panel was hosted by longtime Jay Z engineer Young Guru and included producers Timbaland, DJ Mustard, Mike Will Made-It and Wondagurl.

The panelists kept it all the way real as they discussing everything from how to tell an artist their verse is trash to breaking down the difference between a producer and a beat maker. Check out the Complex Conversations for yourself in the video above, and look out for more celebrities, activists, designers and musicians discussing the most pressing topics impacting youth culture each week.