Prince Paul Tells All: The Stories Behind His Classic Records (Part 2)

From Slick Rick, BDP, and De La Soul to Gravediggaz, Chris Rock, and Handsome Boy Modeling School, Prince Paul keeps on making monumental moves in the hip-hop game. Act like ya know.

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Image via Complex Original
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Prince Paul got his start as a teenage DJ spinning for Stetsasonic and went on to form the legendary trio De La Soul. Their seminal debut 3 Feet High and Rising redefined the possibilities of sampling and their innovative use of skits—as a way of providing comic relief and establishing a cohesive theme throughout an album—made a profound impact on hip-hop. But Prince Paul was just getting started.

In part one of his epic Complex interview, Prince Paul took us from the Stetsasonic era through the founding of De La Soul and their classic sophomore album, De La Soul is Dead. But there’s a whole lot more to the story, from Gravediggaz to the Handsome Boy Modelling School. 

A master of concept albums, Paul continues to build projects that allow him to express his restless creative vision. (He's spent much of the past year criss-crossing America with Scion A/V as part of the documentary series “Prince Paul’s Amazing Musical Journey”, which has allowed him to stay plugged in to the current music landscape.) In this second part of his Complex confessions, the rap legend talks about how he met RZA and sat in on the early Wu Tang sessions, he tells which industry heavyweights turned their backs on him when times were hard, and he reveals the one thing that could make him give up hip-hop for good.

As told to Jaeki Cho (@JaekiCho)

Slick Rick “Behind Bars” (1991)

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Album: Behind Bars

Label: Def Jam

Prince Paul:“I got a call from Russell. Def Jam had everybody producing for Slick Rick because he had a small window of time when he was able to record. He was working on two albums, recording as much material as he possibly could for them. They didn’t know what his outcome was and I’m pretty sure Russell invested a lot of money in him.


 

Slick Rick just rhymed effortlessly. He rhymed like it was just part of his anatomy.


 

“I remember he was recording at a studio in upstate New York. I came into the studio with some music and Slick Rick was like, ‘Okay, cool, that one. Okay, yeah, yeah, let’s do that one.’ And they were two songs I liked: one was ‘Behind Bars,’ and the other one was this song called ‘Gambling,’ which I still have.

“We recorded ‘Behind Bars,’ and I was super excited, man. To me, Slick Rick is just dope. Probably out of all the MCs I’ve worked with, and not to discredit anyone because they’re all dope, but what really made Slick Rick dope is the fact that he just rhymed effortlessly.

“You know certain singers like Luther Vandross, he can just talk something out, and he’s able to sing so well? That’s basically how Slick Rick rhymed. He rhymed like it was just part of his anatomy. It wasn’t a rappity rapping. He’ll just be like, ‘Okay, let’s…’ and mumbles. ‘Give me another track…’ then he’ll just rap again.

“He’ll just lace them down, sitting in a chair with a cup of coffee in one hand. So I’m like, ‘This is crazy’ He had book in one hand, and a cup of coffee in another, sitting on a stool, rhyming. No moving the arms, no shaking the head, it was just incredible. That really blew my mind, because I never saw anybody do that. To him it was almost like, ‘Eh, another day at the job. Next beat.’ [Laughs.]


 

Warren G was hot, and I was not, Russell made an executive decision, ‘You know, Warren G, ‘Regulate,’ let’s have him produce for Slick Rick’s comeback.’ I’m not sure, but I’m just guessing what they thought. I got pushed to the side.


 

“So I did that record. I didn’t know when it was going to come out. Finally, ‘Behind Bars’ comes out and I’m getting excited. The date when I made it would’ve been the perfect time to come out. Then it started sounding dated after a while.

“I guess since Warren G was hot, and I was not, Russell made an executive decision, ‘You know, Warren G, ‘Regulate,’ let’s have him produce for Slick Rick’s comeback.’ I’m not sure, but I’m just guessing what they thought. I got pushed to the side.

“I got writer’s credit, and I got my publishing on it. But it kind of hurts because I put in the footwork and legwork to travel to that studio, spend time, and do the real gutsy recording part of it, just to get an acapella out. You know?”

Boogie Down Productions “Sex and Violence” (1992)

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Album: Sex and Violence

Label: Jive

Prince Paul: “I’ve known KRS-One and Scott La Rock from being in Stetsasonic. I didn’t know KRS-One as well as I knew Scott. I guess me being cool with Scott La Rock, it obviously made me cool with all of Boogie Down Productions. So I went to meet up with them.

“As time went on I knew KRS-One was a big De La fan. Kenny Parker, his brother, was also a big De La fan. Kenny was like, ‘Yo, we’re working on this next record. Do you have some beats?’ And I gave him some ideas and some music. He picked some beats and I remember we just went in.

“What’s impressive about Kris is he had a book of rhymes. Like a lot of MCs write to the tracks, but he had literally a book of rhymes that matched the beats. He’ll say, ‘Let’s try this one.’ And he’ll flip through the pages, and go, ‘Oh, how about this one?’ It was super impressive.


 

The only bad thing about making that record and working with Boogie Down Productions, was that I never got a chance to finish the song. We recorded the track, Kris put his vocals on, and I never heard from him until the album came out. That really bothered me.


 

“The only bad thing about making that record, and working with Boogie Down Productions was that I never got a chance to finish the song. We recorded the track, Kris put his vocals on, and I never heard from him until the album came out. That really bothered me because those records on that album were just incomplete. They’re not how I would’ve made them.

“To Kris’ credit, years later, I saw him in California and he came to me and said, ‘Yo, I apologize.’ Out of nowhere. He gave me that look, and goes, ‘You know what I’m talking about.’ And I take it that it was for that. At least I’m hoping it was.

“That bothered me because it’s a record in my eyes that could’ve been way better. I was excited because I got to work with a guy who I really admire. But I couldn’t give him the proper justice.

“All the records in that album are incomplete records in my eyes because I didn’t get to finish them. So imagine you lay a beat, and they go, ‘Okay, next week. Let’s finish this.’ And you don’t hear anything. I got paid, which was nice, but I never got a chance to mix them, I never got a chance to add stuff, and break stuff down.

“I’m an okay beatmaker, but I think I’m nice as a producer. I can take an artist, I can take a sound, and I can manipulate it, arrange stuff, and make it better. But I didn’t get a chance to do that.”

De La Soul “Ego Trippin' (Part Two)” (1994)

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Album: Buhloone Mindstate

Label: Tommy Boy

Prince Paul: “It was the same situation. I was like, ‘Maybe it’s time for us to move on.’ And they were like, ‘Nah, let’s just do this album together.’ At that point, I was just like, ‘Yeah, this is my family.’ I do other records, but the records that I really focused on were always De La records, because that was what set me apart from everybody else. Stetsasonic was cool because it gave me my start as a DJ, God bless’em, but this is how people knew Prince Paul. So I had to put a lot of effort in putting this album together.


 

It was nice for The Source to give five mics or whatever, [but] on an overall scale it wasn’t as big of a record as 3 Feet High and Rising. So everything started to decline a little bit, and as the guys got older, they were kind of growing apart. Making this album was not as fun as making the previous two.


 

“I think what made this album a little tougher, especially on the guys, was following up to 3 Feet High and Rising. The second album [De La Soul Is Dead] was regarded as a classic, it was great, but when it came out it wasn’t received as such. Even though, it was nice for The Source to give five mics or whatever, on an overall scale it wasn’t as big of a record as 3 Feet High and Rising.

"So everything started to decline a little bit, and as the guys got older, they were kind of growing apart. Making this album was not as fun as making the previous two. And it wasn’t as many people around, us laughing and giggling. And I attribute that to us growing up. We started our first record as teenagers, and now things were getting real. We were a little more serious on making this record.”

“And I remember, like in most cases it was Pos and I trying to sort stuff out. I like this album a lot because Dave and Maseo made some serious contributions production wise. I mean Maseo has always been there, but it was good for Dave because he took the reins on few songs, and started his imprint as a producer.

“That one Maseo actually came up with the concept. Using that Al Hirt sample just blew my mind. I was like, ‘Yo, we have to make this a little different than what we normally do sonically. So let’s put the vocal through a phaser.’ I didn’t hear any MC around that time that was putting vocals through a phaser. People weren’t using studio effects that much. And I was like—that kind of fit the body of where the beat’s going.

“I remember they were being a little reluctant, because it was different. I don’t know if they thought it’d mess up the way people perceive the rhyme. The engineers always thought it was great. Whenever I came into a studio, the engineers expected the song to be out the norm.

"Especially in hip-hop, how things are recorded, and how things are mixed. So it was always fun for them. But I know the De La guys were a little reluctant at the time. But when they heard it, and they kind of got the idea of where I was going with it, when I tweaked it out right, they were like, ‘Oh, okay. We get it.’

“I remember it had a lot of references to other people’s songs and rhymes. My thing was always feeling the record first, and then listening to the music second. The questions were, “Does the rhyme feel right with the beat? Does it match?” And later I’d go, “Oh, that’s what you’re rhyming about.” Which might be bad in some way, but that’s how it worked.”

De La Soul w/ Scha Dara Parr and Takagi Kan “Long Island Wildin’” (1993)

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Album: Buhloone Mindstate

Label: Tommy Boy

Prince Paul:“The third album was certainly a mixture of people, and I would say it was more by appointment than the atmosphere. It was like, ‘Oh, such and such would come in at this time.’ It was based upon how the music industry was changing. At one point, anybody could come in, lay down a rhyme, and it’s good. It became a time when, ‘Contact my manager. What’s my cut? What forms do I have to fill out?’ You know, it became a different environment.


 

Before, it was like, ‘Yo, I’m just so happy to be here. Let’s just bug out. Money? What’s that? We’re just happy to be making records.’ As time went on, those things became different.


 

"Now when you walk in, which rightfully so, you hear how much you’re getting paid, what’s the split, talk to my man, here’s his number. You can talk to my man, and we’ll work it out. Whereas, before, it was like, ‘Yo, I’m just so happy to be here. Let’s just bug out. Money? What’s that? We’re just happy to be making records.’ As time went on, those things became different. We had such and such people in there, usually they were fans of De La, but a lot of business was involved in it as well.

“Yeah, I remember meeting them in Japan when I traveled to De La to Japan. And they so happened to be in town at the time. So you know De La, they keep in touch with everybody. They were like, ‘Yo, guess who’s in town?’ And I was like, ‘Yo, let’s record them.’

"So we had a beat looped up, and we had them rhyme on it, and I wanted to make that to the intro for the album. And De La cats were like, ‘Nah, nah, people are going to think we’re silly.’ It was interesting because a lot of people haven’t heard of Japanese rap back then. It was somewhat an introduction to heads that hip-hop was bigger than just the United States.’”

De La Soul “Breakadawn” (1993)

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Album: Buhloone Mindstate

Label: Tommy Boy

Prince Paul: “I remember recording it at my house. Pos came over with the idea of using a Michael Jackson record. And I had few other samples laid underneath it, so we pieced it together until we got it right. He had some rough rhymes to it, and it was good enough for us to take it into the studio.

“I recommended all of them to get equipment so we can do pre-production at home, instead of spending that much money or time in the studio. Especially Buhloone Mindstate, we were trying to record more stuff before we went into the studio.


 

If you think about it, from 3 Feet High and Rising on is when Tommy Boy’s greatest success started. Since then they’ve signed Queen Latifah, House of Pain, Coolio, and Digital Underground. Basically a lightbulb went on in their heads like, “Oh, that’s what it is.”


 

“We had to pay for the Michael Jackson sample. Tommy Boy was really sensitive, and rightfully so. You can’t get away with a Michael Jackson sample. There’s no way of getting around that. In some cases, it’s not just paying for some artist, you had to convince them that you’re worthy of using it.

"You have guys like Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones, who don't need extra money. What is it to them? Especially during that era? So it was more so, ‘Do they like you?’ You can offer them an extra amount of money, and all the publishing, but they can still easily say, ‘No, don’t need it.’

“The label always supported De La because they were integral to their success. I mean, if you really think about it, aside from “Planet Rock,” the next big [Tommy Boy] record that sold a lot, and had a cultural impact was 3 Feet High and Rising. They based a lot of knowledge [on] what we did, and how we market ourselves, to find and develop other artists. So if you think about it, from 3 Feet High and Rising on is when Tommy Boy’s greatest success started.

"Since then they’ve signed Queen Latifah, House of Pain, Coolio, and Digital Underground. Basically a lightbulb went on in their heads like, “Oh, that’s what it is.” And we presented our ideas to Tommy Boy as far as marketing, and album themes, etc. The label just took it and ran. So as Tommy Boy was becoming successful, it did have a sense of loyalty to the group, which was amazing. And De La Soul was still making them money. Even a flop record going Gold weren’t in the negative. So they were still a cash cow for Tommy Boy.”

Gravediggaz “Diary of a Madman” (1994)

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Album: 6 Feet Deep

Label: Gee Street

Prince Paul: “I met RZA in the ’80s after I recorded the first De La record. I met him through his manager named Mel Kwan, who came up to me like, ‘Yo, I got this artist. I think you might like him, and he’s a big fan of your music. His name is Prince Rakeem.’

So RZA and I sat down, we talked, he was playing some stuff he liked, I was playing him stuff I was into, and we just clicked. We got along really well. We bumped heads on a few ideas, but to me that just made the relationship better because we learned from each other.


 

Things weren’t panning out for me in the music industry. It was horrible. It’s funny, I went on this really big high, and all of a sudden, I got into this really bad low. I was young, and I didn’t understand why. One minute, everybody loves you, and all of a sudden I can’t even get anybody to pick up the phone.


 

“Poetic I met off and on, because he lived in Long Island. So automatically we came across each other. It turns out, he reminded me that the first time I met him was when one of his boys came by my house in high school to buy these big giant speakers used for them big block parties. And Poetic was apparently one of the guys who helped that dude to move the speakers out of my house. [Laughs.]

"Later on Poetic got signed to Tommy Boy, but him and I really started talking when I had other projects I was working on. He gave me a demo, which I still have, and he wanted to be a part of it. He had this group called Brothers Grym, consists of Poetic, his brother, and this guy named Pedro, who I just called Mr. Sims, because his last name was Sims.

“And during the same time, Frukwan said he left Stetsasonic. It’s kind of weird, between him and Daddy-O. They got into some beef, and he didn't want to be in the group. I’ll say that much. So Frukwan was floating around, recording demos for Tommy Boy, and I think Tommy Boy was planning on putting a solo record out for him, and it didn’t pan out. To me Frukwan was always super dope, so I kept in touch with him.

“Then it came time when things weren’t panning out for me in the music industry. It was horrible. It’s funny, I went on this really big high, and all of a sudden, I got into this really bad low. I was young, and I didn’t understand why. One minute, everybody loves you, and all of a sudden I can’t even get anybody to pick up the phone. All the people I worked with, the industry people, it’s amazing…

“The records weren’t popping as much. When I had 3 Feet High and Rising, that’s when people started noticing, and sales were increasing. And when sales started decreasing, so does your popularity. And by the time Pete Rock and Large Professor and all these guys were coming out, I had dedicated my time working on this label thing with Russell Simmons.


 

What really hurt me was when MC Serch came to me and said, ‘Yo, I’m working on an album,’ I think it was his solo record. And he said, ‘I told Russell I wanted you to produce some records, and Russell said, ‘Why you trying to get Prince Paul, man? He’s played out. He’s wack.’


 

"Since that didn’t pan out, I lost a good solid year of being a producer. And I was just getting dissed. I remember the final straw of what really hurt me was when MC Serch came to me and said, ‘Yo, I’m working on an album,’ I think it was his solo record.

"And he said, ‘I told Russell I wanted you to produce some records, and Russell said, ‘Why you trying to get Prince Paul, man? He’s played out. He’s wack.’ And of course, Serch had no tact in telling me that. And it all made sense like, ‘Okay, these are the same dudes who begged me to work with them, now it’s like I’m wack.’

“So I took all that frustration, and I started making these dark, depressing beats. And I was like, ‘Yo, I’m going to put a group together; I’m going to show everybody that I’m not wack. I’m nice.’ So I started finding guys in similar predicaments.

"I called up RZA, who was signed to Tommy Boy, and then got dropped, had legal problems, not having a good time. Frukwan, it was bad, I think he was making clothes out of his house at the time. Poetic was kind of making music, but he was working at a factory, living with his sister.

"So I thought of uniting people who felt were in similar mind frames, and I’ve decided to take their energy to make a group. We’re going to form this one single power, and after that we’re going to go about and do individual projects. It’d be an easy way to re-launch our careers.

“So I brought them to my house. I played them the music. They all got along. And we had to come up with a name, so we came up with the Gravediggaz concept. Honestly, I don’t even know why we used that name. I was just amped that everybody was there. RZA said he came up with it, but I say Poetic did.

"I remember when the name Gravediggaz came up, Rakeem said, ‘Yo, I’m going to be the Rzarector, the RZA.” He came up with that name at my house. [Laughs.] And Poetic was like, ‘I’m going to be the Grym Reaper.” You know, because he had Brothers Grym. And then Frukwan was like, ‘Yeah, yeah, I’ll be the Gatekeeper.’ And I just said, ‘Aight, then I’ll be the Undertaker. Let’s get going!’ [Laughs.]


 

‘Diary of Madman’ amazingly did well. I remember talking to Funk Flex, he was like, ‘Yo, I had to play this record. I didn’t want to play it, but I have to because it’s getting requested so much.’ Flex told me it was like the most requested record for like a week or two week. He even had a disgusted look on his face.


 

“When the singles came out they were received in mixed ways. At the time, Craig Mack was out, and Biggie was out. Everything was kind of getting more street-oriented. And there was Wu-Tang of course. So everybody was calling our sound “gimmicky.”

“But the good thing was that ‘Diary of Madman’ amazingly did well. I remember talking to Funk Flex, he was like, ‘Yo, I had to play this record. I didn’t want to play it, but I have to because it’s getting requested so much.’ Flex told me it was like the most requested record for like a week or two week. He even had a disgusted look on his face, like, ‘Man, I really don't want to play this, but I’m just getting bombarded with requests.’ It was nice because that record didn’t have a hook or anything. It was straight rhyming, but it received daytime play. I knew I won, kind of like when ‘Plug Tunin’’ was out on the radio.

“And RZA making Wu-Tang peak at the moment didn’t hurt either. It just made people more interested in us. So we did well. It wasn’t great. We just had this stigma of being a gimmick, which really bothered me. I was like, ‘Man, I worked hard for what? To get dissed?’ But like most of my records, it takes people ten years to appreciate it.”

Gravediggaz “1-800 Suicide” (1994)

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Album: 6 Feet Deep

Label: Gee Street

Prince Paul: “We made demos at the house, which were ‘1-800 Suicide,’ ‘Pass the Shovel,’ and several others that were all demos we did with the 8-track machine. ‘Diary of a Madman’ we did it in a studio. And that’s how it all started.


 

It was a shame, this thing I put all this effort into, the thing I wanted to show the world, wasn’t working. And I really worked hard on that demo. I was like, ‘I’ll give it one more week, if it doesn’t happen, we’ll just dissolve this situation. We’ll forget it.’


 

“We literally shopped the Gravediggaz stuff for almost a year. Nobody would touch it. Jive was interested for two seconds, but one of the guys over there was like, ‘Oh, Paul? He’s old. He’s played out.’ Same thing. Getting dissed. All them dudes are old, they had records before. Why sign them? Def Jam, obviously not, since Russell wasn’t feeling me at the time. Yet they came out with Flatlinerz, which kind of freaked me out.

"Tommy Boy was like, ‘Nah…’ And it was a shame, this thing I put all this effort into, the thing I wanted to show the world wasn’t working. And I really worked hard on that demo. I was like, ‘I’ll give it one more week, if it doesn’t happen, we’ll just dissolve this situation. We’ll forget it.’

“I gave it one more week, and I spoke to Poetic when he just landed a job at a bagel factory. And within that week, Gee Street calls us and says, ‘Yo, I want to meet with you guys. Let’s put out this Gravediggaz record.’ I’m also forgetting, we did get offered another deal.


 

We had a meeting with Eazy-E. He wanted to sign us to Ruthless. I had a meeting with him and Jerry Heller in California. And I remember Eazy was like, ‘Gravediggaz—I like this. I like the demo.’ But that deal was wack! I’d rather have no deal than sign that deal.


 

"We had a meeting with Eazy-E. He wanted to sign us to Ruthless. I had a meeting with him and Jerry Heller in California. And I remember Eazy was like, ‘Gravediggaz—I like this. I like the demo.’ But that deal was wack! I’d rather have no deal than sign that deal. Basically, ‘We own everything, and we give you very little money.’

“I make music depending on my emotions. I consider myself a true artist. That’s why it was important for me to get like-minded people. I was depressed. Now I’m older, I look back like, ‘Man, I wouldn’t have cried over that.’ But at the moment, when you’re young, you’re like, ‘What is this?’ It’s overwhelming, man. So I just made all this dark music. And luckily those dudes felt the same exact way that I felt. So they were able to come from the same place. And it worked out.”

“I remember we had this beat, and we were all like, ‘Yo, let’s just strike a nerve.’ And I don’t even remember how the concept of suicide came up. That’s something RZA would do, right? It sounds like his brain. As soon as Frukwan laid down the first rhyme, it was over, and we were like, ‘Oh! That’s crazy!’ And then it followed suit. And we recorded that in my house, man. It was crazy. That’s certainly one of those taboo records.”

Gravediggaz “Nowhere to Run, Nowhere to Hide” (1994)

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Album: 6 Feet Deep

Label: Gee Street

Prince Paul: “I don't even remember recording that. I remember one thing, I don’t remember song by song, but I remember really pushing Poetic a lot. I’d keep tell him, ‘Yo, you’re better than that. Your style is better than that.’ Until he came up with this weird, quirky, sing-songy stuff he would do. I remember pushing him to that. And I also remember telling RZA that Poetic is better than him [Laughs.], which made RZA even better.


 

I’ve had no problem teaching people. Just like how I dealt with De La. I liked RZA. He was a good guy. The Gravediggaz just helped him a whole lot because he saw my techniques. He’d watch a lot, he’d ask questions.


 

“I remember when we were starting on the Gravediggaz album, RZA telling me, ‘Yo, I got these guys. They all have different styles. We’re going to put a single out on our own. I’m going to see what happens.’ And then he added, ‘Maybe, I’m going to try and get some meetings. Can I use your name to try and get up with some people?’ And I said, ‘Yeah, if my name still got juice, go ahead.’ [Laughs.] And he put out ‘Protect Your Neck,’ around the time we finished the demos for Gravediggaz, and when I was shopping them around. That’s when ‘Protect Your Neck’ started to take off.

“Me and RZA first met in the late ’80s, first doing the demos way before the project with the Gravediggaz. That’s when I did the most explaining. I’ve had no problem teaching people. Just like how I dealt with De La. I liked RZA. He was a good guy.

"The Gravediggaz just helped him a whole lot because he saw my techniques. He’d watch a lot, he’d ask questions, he used a lot of the same places I would record at, use sound effects, which definitely helped him with Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers), because he was able to take all the karate pieces off, and create connectors before the songs. Like the bit, ‘Where my Killer tape at, God?’He recorded that stuff where I recorded the Gravediggaz materials.


 

It was nice because he really respected a whole lot of what I did. So that gave me a lot of time and opportunity to sit through a lot of those Wu-Tang sessions. I’d be in the back, and he would ask, ‘What do you think, Paul?’ I said, ‘It’s hot! A little distorted, but it’s hot!’


 

“RZA would just be like, ‘Yo, who should I get? How should I do this?’ He pieced a lot of that together. It wasn’t like I said, ‘Hey, son, take a seat so I can show you how this works. Go grab an MPC.’ It was more or less just giving him suggestions.

"It was nice because he really respected a whole lot of what I did. So that gave me a lot of time and opportunity to sit through a lot of those Wu-Tang sessions. I’d be in the back, and he would ask, ‘What do you think, Paul?’ I said, ‘It’s hot! A little distorted, but it’s hot!’

“I was there when they recorded “Method Man” at the Paradise Studio. Everybody was hungry, these guys were straight off the streets, and they were just happy to be there. And the beautiful thing was that they had so much respect for the RZA. It was weird, because RZA had a lot of respect for me. So I was kind of like that dude during those sessions. So it was even more amusing for me to see RZA being that dude amongst the Wu-Tang.

"Whatever he said, you can see that the rest of the guys had a look of adulation for the Abbot’s words. And you can see that they really respected and loved this dude. RZA would say, ‘Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, we’re going to, this, this, and this, it’s going to work, and bong, we’ll make it.’ And the rest of the guys and their faces were like a group of kids. They were like, ‘Really?’ [Laughs.]


 

RZA always spoke with sort of a stutter, and his pronunciation was always unique. Like I remember back then, he would say something. Some people would later ask me, ‘Yo, what did he just say?’ Like they needed subtitles or something.


 

“RZA always spoke with sort of a stutter, and his pronunciation was always unique. Like I remember back then, he would say something. Some people would later ask me, ‘Yo, what did he just say?’ Like they needed subtitles or something. He wasn’t that bad, but he always spoke like that. He’s a funny dude, man.

"The reason why we’re still friends until this day, but on a different level, it’s because I’ve always had respect for him. Even when he was at his lowest point, when people were laughing at him, when he did “Ooh, we love you Rakeem.” I still had the utmost respect for him, when I was at the peak of my career. And I always treated him as an equal.

"So even today, we can get on the phone and talk about anything that’s everything. I can snap at him, and he snaps back. As brilliant as [RZA] is, he just makes me smile. And mad people love him. They worship him. I’m just looking at it like, ‘Man, this is incredible.’”

Biz Markie, Chubb Rock & Prince Paul “No Rubber, No Backstage Pass” (1996)

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Album: America Is Dying Slowly

Label: East West

Prince Paul: “People don’t often talk about that record. I actually like that record a lot. [Red Hot Organization] who was putting the [America Is Dying Slowly] together, told me the idea behind the record, and if I was willing to donate a song. I mean, of course, man. Who wouldn’t?

“So I’ve known Biz since I was like 14 years old. He’s been a friend forever. And I love Chubb Rock. So I brought Chubb into the studio, and I was like, ‘Yo, I want to record this one differently. I want to record it with hand-held microphones.’

"So I brought some microphones, that’s why it sounds all distorted and stuff. And they were cheap microphones. So Biz and Chubb just kicked rhymes that were off the top of their heads. And of course that’s what Biz is going to do, because he doesn’t write stuff down by then. He just likes to spit a whole lot of nothing.

"And Chubb Rock is going to be Chubb Rock—he’s going to be dope. Very underrated guy, lyrically, I think. And that’s how that record came about. They came in, heard the beat, and Biz came on time, which he rarely does. And we just did it. I was very pleased with it, considering the circumstances. I didn’t spend a whole lot of time on that record, but for what it was, it was cool.”

Prince Paul, Psychoanalysis: What is It? (1996)

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Label: Wordsound Records; Tommy Boy Records Re-Release (1999)

Prince Paul: “That record was supposed to be a small, amongst-my peers-type record. Just for fun. It was made after the Gravediggaz time. A friend of mine has a small label called Wordsound Records, and he wanted to put a record out. I was like, ‘What should we make a record about?’ He was like, ‘Yo, just do what you do best. Make a concept up.’

“So I was randomly looking through records, looking through stuff and books, and I see Psychoanalysis. I was like, ‘Psychoanalysis? People think I’m crazy. Let’s do an album about that.’ So I took out my psychology book from college, I found a psychoanalysis record, and just decided to base the album around this concept. I made a few calls to MCs, and people I’ve worked with in the past, and as it would be known, people didn’t want to mess with me.


 

I was like, ‘Psychoanalysis? People think I’m crazy. Let’s do an album about that.’ So I took out my psychology book from college, I found a psychoanalysis record, and just decided to base the album around this concept.


 

"Nobody wanted to come to the table, and I felt like I was getting dissed. And I was like, ‘I’m going to really reach back, and just get all my friends I grew up with.’ I got with Popmaster, Smiley G, Newkirk, and we just came and made this silly record. And it was a reckless record because we talked about date rape and things of that nature.

“It was kind of like getting your college buddies together. You sit around with a bunch of beer, and you just talk reckless. That’s what that record was. It wasn’t a huge record, but I didn’t think it was going to go as far as it went. I thought it was going to be one of those bargain-bin-at-wherever-type albums. I thought it was one of those buy-this-Gang-Starr-record-and-we’ll-throw-this-one-in-there-for-free-type records. [Laughs.] But it kind of built up its own little steam. Until this day, people will come up to me and say, ‘Yo, I love Psychoanalysis. That record changed my life,’ which is crazy to me.

“That was when I was like, ‘Yo, F my career.’ I wasn’t working with De La any longer, my Gravediggaz album wasn’t being received well, and I couldn’t even get people to record. So if I’m going to seal my fate, I’m going to record this album. I’m going to make it as stupid as I can possibly make it. And ironically, the stupid record got me to work with Chris Rock, got me to put Handsome Boy Modeling School together, and got me a deal to do A Prince Among Thieves.”

Chris Rock, "Roll with the New" (1997)

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Label: DreamWorks

Prince Paul: “I used to see him at a lot of events, but I never talked to him. Since he was down with Rush, everybody gravitated towards that office. Having some dealings with Russell Simmons. But it wasn’t until one day I wrapped up Psychoanalysis, and I get a call on the answering machine, like, ‘Hey, it’s Chris Rock. I’m working on this album, and I’m thinking about having you to produce a couple songs for me. Why don’t you give me a call?’

"I was like, ‘Chris Rock? What you doing calling me? This is a joke. This got to be De La.’ So I called the guys at De La, and they were like, ‘What are you talking about?’ So it took me a while for me to call Chris back, because I was trying to debunk the joke. And I finally called Chris, and was like, ‘Yo, this ain’t a joke?’ He was like, ‘Nah.’ But he did get a kick out of it, like, ‘You thought De La Soul was impersonating me?’


 

I get a call on the answering machine, like, ‘Hey, it’s Chris Rock. I’m working on this album, and I’m thinking about having you to produce a couple songs for me. Why don’t you give me a call?’ And I was like, ‘Chris Rock? What you doing calling me? This is a joke. This got to be De La.’ 


 

“So we started out with couple tracks, but it ended up being a whole album because we got along so well. And as Chris always said, and I would quote him, ‘Yo, you get it.’ You know how you have your friends, and you see something is funny, and nobody else gets it, but you see it? So that’s how Chris and I were. We can see the humor in something, and kind of extract the humor, record it, and giggle. And in the process of that, him and I became pretty good friends. We talked about family, work, and jokes.

“What would happen is, Chris and I would get on the phone, and we would get into a conversation. In the midst of the conversation, while we were joking, I would write down a list of things we talked about. So we would have a list of stuff, and go, ‘Let’s do this.’ And sort things out. Then he would get his guys like Ali, Wanda Sykes, and the guy who played Pootie Tang named Lance Crouther. And we would just record things. It was kind of how it went.

“Those were some of the best sessions to be in. If I could do comedy records for my whole life, I would definitely do it. It’s fun, man. It’s relaxing. MCs come with certain amount of tension, and certain amount of divaness. But comedians just want to sit around and make people laugh. Plus, budgets are nice, the food is nice, we’re just joking, and they leave it to your work.

"Chris trusted me, seeing all those records we did winning Grammys it just made us appreciate the relationship. And it was real. It wasn’t just a fluke. The first one we won a Grammy for, it’s like, ‘Maybe it’s popular because Chris is popular.’ And Adam Sandler is funny all the time, and his albums are incredibly funny, but we beat him. The second year, it was like, ‘Okay…’ The third time, I was like, ‘Oh, there’s something to this formula.’ So working with Chris was just easy and it was fun.”

Prince Paul, A Prince Among Thieves (1999)

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Prince Paul, A Prince Among Thieves (1999)

Label: Tommy Boy

Prince Paul: “What’s weird was that Psychoanalysis kind of created this weird buzz. Monica Lynch, who I’ve always had a great relationship at Tommy Boy, said, ‘I really like this Psychoanalysis record. I want to re-release it. And if you’re ever going to do any type of record as creative as this, we’ll do it. And I was like, ‘Hold on—I can do any record I want to do?’ She said, ‘Yeah.’

“The reason they wanted to sign me wasn’t even for record sales. It was for the fact that the departments over there were bored. Now they had this marketing machine of getting an artist, getting a pop record, and everybody was basically generating the same old. So they wanted to bring me in there to make things different. It boosts things around, changes things, and gets things creative. So I took advantage of it.


 

I said I wanted to make a movie on wax. I wanted to make an adults’ kid album. I actually proposed this idea to Russell Simmons in the early ’90s. I remember this clearly, Russell might not remember this, but I do. He said, ‘Okay, demo it up for me.’ I was like, ‘I can’t demo it up. It’s an idea. It’s a concept. It’s a children’s record.’ And he didn’t want to mess with it.


 

“I proposed the idea of A Prince Among Thieves. I said I wanted to make a movie on wax. I wanted to make an adults’ kid album. I actually proposed this idea to Russell Simmons in the early ’90s. I remember this clearly, Russell might not remember this, but I do. He said, ‘Okay, demo it up for me.’ I was like, ‘I can’t demo it up. It’s an idea. It’s a concept. It’s a children’s record.’ And he didn’t want to mess with it.

"So I finally got the opportunity. I wrote a story, scripted it out in my weak writing attempt. I’ve watched a whole lot of b-class movies. I was like, ‘Yo, I’m going to take every scene from every bad movie I watched, the cliché scenes, and put all of this in one story.’

“So I had to find somebody to play the lead. Breeze Brewin’ was a dude, years back, was signed to this label that asked me to remix a lot of his stuff. That was when I first got exposed to the Juggaknots. The record never came out, and he just kind of faded to obscurity. So I did some research, found his number, cold called him mad years later. He was like, ‘Who’s this?’ I said, ‘It’s Prince Paul.’ He didn’t believe that it was me initially, but we were able to get it popping.

“As we were building, I wanted to get Chino XL as the other lead character. I mentioned Chino XL to Breeze, because I was a big Chino XL fan. But people really didn’t like Chino XL. I know dudes who despised that dude. I thought he was incredible. But for some reason it just didn’t pan out. And every time I mentioned getting Chino XL other people were just like, “Eh…”

"So to make it easier there was a guy who was around my way named Sha, who just had the right voice. And it would be easier. Getting Chino would be difficult to work with him because he lived…I forgot where he was at the time, but it wasn’t close.


 

I wanted to get Chino XL as the other lead character. I mentioned Chino XL to Breeze, because I was a big Chino XL fan. But people really didn’t like Chino XL. I know dudes who despised that dude. I thought he was incredible. But for some reason it just didn’t pan out.


 

“Notice how I said a lot of cats weren’t interested in working with me anymore? And A Prince Among Thieves had a lot of cats who were underground, not mainstream heavyweights at the time. They were a lot of cats from back in my era, who in the late ’90s, weren’t as popping. [Laughs.]

“And cats needed checks. We’ve had mutual respect for one another, but at the same time nobody rhymed for free. So that was more or less the thing. Like, ‘Yo, I’m doing this song, and I’ve got a budget.’ I didn’t tell people about the script or what exactly I was doing.

"Matter of fact, Kane didn’t know until further down the line. I remember he was on BET, and they asked him, ‘So when Paul put the record together…?’ And he couldn’t answer any questions, because he didn’t know anything. I just gave him the lines, and I recorded them, and I just put his parts where they matched.

“I gave the guys the script, the lines, found all the people for the parts it’d fit, and contacted them. Some people I got, some people I didn’t. I tried to get Vanilla Ice, but got dissed. His manager was like, 'Nope.' I wanted to put him in the jail scene with Sadat X and Xzibit. Imagine Vanilla Ice spitting some ill lines, like hardcore rhymes. People would lose their minds.

“I contacted everybody, and I told them what the concept of the song is, wrote it, never told them what the album was about, and they’d come in, they would read the lines, and I would take it home, piece it together. I would sample things, I would have a little sequencer, and remember no Pro Tools at the time. So I spent a lot of time making that record. If it was up to me, and if I had the money, I would’ve had DMX as the villain, but I didn’t have the budget or the respect for that.


 

I tried to get Vanilla Ice, but got dissed. His manager was like, “Nope.” I wanted to put him in the jail scene with Sadat X and Xzibit. Imagine Vanilla Ice spitting some ill lines, like hardcore rhymes. People would lose their minds.


 

“Somebody came up to me and said Sticky Fingaz’ Blacktrash: The Autobiography of Kirk Jones, was similar in concept to A Prince Among Thieves. Then MTV does that Carmen thing with Beyonce. I was like, ‘What? Look at this. Nobody was thinking nothing like this!’

"The sad thing is when my record came out, Tommy Boy literally sat on it for a year, and they didn’t know what to do with it. I handed the album in February of 1998, and it didn't come out until February of 1999. I remember playing it for the staff, and everybody was like, ‘Okay…’ They didn’t get it. [Laughs.] It wasn’t on top priority. So very little money was put into that.

“That video trailer was shot with like 15 grand or whatever. And that was when everybody was making million-dollar videos. I was trying to sell Tom Silverman the concept like, ‘Yo, let’s do what Master P did with ’Bout It, ’Bout It. Let’s just do a low-budget movie. I’ll get all these people here to shoot a film, and it’ll be crazy.’ He said, ‘Nope.’

"I couldn’t even get a T-shirt. I had to get Levi’s to make T-shirts for me. They didn't want to invest in it; they didn’t see anything in it. It was a record for them to build morale around the office. It wasn’t a record to sell. So when it came out with all this critical acclaim, it wasn’t until the end when the hype died down, guys at Tommy Boy were like, ‘That was a great record! Do it again!’ Like, how?”

Chris Rock “No Sex in the Champagne Room” (1999)

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Album: Bigger and Blacker

Label: DreamWorks

Prince Paul:“My man Newkirk helped me with that one. I remember just getting into a conversation with Chris about going to strip clubs and he did that bit in his stand-up, too. How people get you all gassed up to the champagne room. And when you get there it’s not really happening.


 

When we were recording in the studio, we got on the elevator, and saw Gerald Levert, and we were like, ‘Yo, we’re doing this record. You want to do it?’ He said, ‘Yeah, sure.’


 

"So we were like, ‘Yo, let’s make a song out of that.’ We wanted to parody this song by Baz Luhrmann. It wasn’t really singing. And it just so happens when we were recording in the studio, we got on the elevator, and saw Gerald Levert, and we were like, ‘Yo, we’re doing this record. You want to do it?’ He said, ‘Yeah, sure.’ [Laughs.]

“Working with Chris and those records just reminded me of the early De La records. Because everybody who was around, we just recorded. We were making records, and downstairs, The Neptunes and ODB were making a record. So we were like, ‘Yo, let’s get ODB to come up and record something.’ And it was just whoever was around. And you know everybody loves Chris.”

Handsome Boy Modeling School, So…How’s Your Girl? (1999)

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Label: Tommy Boy

Prince Paul: “I actually met Dan The Automator over the phone when I was over at Skiz’s house. Skiz was the owner of WordSound, which was the initial label that put out Psychoanalysis. So I’m at Skiz’s house, and he’s like, ‘Yo, I’m speaking with this guy Dan the Automator, and he’s putting out this record called Dr. Octagonecologyst. Y’all should do a tour together. It’d be kind of cool. Psychoanalysis and Dr. Octagon.’

“Then I got on the phone with Dan, and he was just as corky as I was. So we got into a really good conversation. And I heard the Dr. Octagonecologystrecord, and thought it was incredible. So Dan hits me up and asks me to remix ‘Blue Flowers.’ So I remixed it, and I guess he thought I did a pretty good job.


 

It was a joke. He was talking to Monica, and told her, ‘Me and Paul have this group called Handsome Boy Modeling School,’ which didn’t exist. It was a gag. So after we got offered to sign, we had to make something. We just made it up as we went along.


 

"He contacted me back, and we talked on the phone, and I mentioned a sample he used on the album from Get a Life, which was a TV show. And he was like, ‘Yo, you know that?’ We then talked about different episodes, and one of them was “Handsome Boy Modeling School.” And we were like, ‘Yo, we should make a group called Handsome Boy Modeling School. Ha, ha, ha.’ We were joking.

"Automator winded up remixing one of the songs on Psychoanalysis, and he meets up with Monica Lynch, and he calls me up from Monica’s office like, ‘Hey, Paul. So Tommy Boy wants to sign Handsome Boy Modeling School.’ I was like, ‘What? You serious?’ And that’s how it happened.

“It was a joke. He was talking to Monica, and told her, ‘Me and Paul have this group called Handsome Boy Modeling School,’ which didn’t exist. It was a gag. So after we got offered to sign, we had to make something. We just made it up as we went along.

"A lot of times for me to act funny were to ease the tension. Life is short—just have fun, and you never know what’s going to happen, when it happens. And I just like to bug out. I’m not going to be overtly stupid, wear a rainbow hat and elf shoes. But if I can create something and make people go, “Whoa!” Then I’m cool with that.


 

Dan and I pieced together some music, and I threw a mustache on and a suit, we would make a whole bunch of beats and go, ‘Is that handsome?’ ‘Nah, it’s not handsome.’ ‘Is this handsome?’ ‘Yeah, that’s handsome.’


 

"That’s how it worked with Handsome Boy, man. Dan and I pieced together some music, and I threw a mustache on and a suit, we would make a whole bunch of beats and go, ‘Is that handsome?’ ‘Nah, it’s not handsome.’ ‘Is this handsome?’ ‘Yeah, that’s handsome.’ So we made a ton of beats and deemed whether they’re handsome or not handsome.

“[Laughs.] The name of the album started out with a mutual friend. And I don’t know, somebody left him. It started out as a jab at him. I mean, he doesn’t know until this day. Like, “How’s your girl?” It is just meant to be sarcasm. So we just titled it So… How’s Your Girl?, and we thought it was funny. Plus, it sounded like a handsome title. We were like, ‘Okay, it’s a title you model to.’ [Laughs.]

“A lot of the guys like Kid Koala, DJ Quest, Money Mark or DJ Shadow, I have to credit Dan for their involvement because that was his scene. Whereas, I brought in the Grand Puba, Sadat X and other people, Dan brought in those people. So we got a chance to meet everybody, worked with them, and it was cool for me. It was also the first time Dan met Del the Funkee Homosapien. Dan was a big Del fan, so I hooked that up.”

Prince Paul, Politics of the Business (2003)

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Label: Razor & Tie

Prince Paul:“It was a severe parody record, which nobody got. It made it seem like a flop, but it was a sense of humor thing. I actually had Dave Chappelle in that record. I met him when I was working on the Chris Rock albums. I always thought Dave Chappelle was mad funny. So I was like, ‘Yo, I need to have Dave Chappelle play my record label guy.’


 

People at Tommy Boy once said, and this was quoted in an article, ‘Paul makes his records too smart,’ or something along those lines. A lot of stuff is sarcastic; a lot of stuff goes over people’s heads.


 

"The stuff I told you about regarding the label when I did A Prince Among Thieves? Dave Chappelle was the voice of the label on Politics of the Business. I remember Tom Silverman telling me, ‘Don’t worry about the album content. Worry about singles.’ Like, ‘What? I can’t just focus on a few singles, and make a wack album! You crazy?’ So there were all these absurd things you had to go through as an artist. Basically, stuff that’s going to destroy your legacy.

“So I made this record, it started out on Tommy Boy, but Tommy Boy folded by the time I was done with it. So it was basically me giving Tom Silverman what he wanted. So it was just an album full of parody, hip-hoppy, grassy songs. Like really transparent. And people literally took it as that. So it was another ‘Oh, God’ moment for me. And I even wrote long liner notes explaining what I was doing. And it was useless. People were just like, ‘Oh, this record’s wack.’

“People at Tommy Boy once said, and this was quoted in an article, ‘Paul makes his records too smart,’ or something along those lines. A lot of stuff is sarcastic; a lot of stuff goes over people’s heads. This was around the time we did this fake MTV Diary, and we set up a table at Fat Beats to see random people coming into the store, getting my work signed. I think I shot Doom in there. Overall, that record was just real sarcastic, and it was meant to be that way.”

Souls of Mischief, "You Got It (Montezuma’s Revenge)" (2009)

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Label: Clear Label Records

Prince Paul: “I did it because I like the group. I told them I wanted to make a record that should have followed ’93 til Infinity. I just wanted to make a throwback record. Whether it’s great or not, whether it’s going to sell, I don’t know, but I wanted to make something more for the fans. Because the records I heard from them in the latter years weren’t Souls of Mischief that I liked. So I tried to, in my best way, create a Souls of Mischief record, or a record for a group I fell in love with.


 

I wanted to make something more for the fans. Because the records I heard from them in the latter years weren’t Souls of Mischief that I liked. So I tried to, in my best way, create a Souls of Mischief record, or a record for a group I fell in love with.


 

“I actually met them when they got signed to Jive. It was around the time when I was shopping around Gravediggaz. So, yeah, we met, they heard the Gravediggaz demos, and they were fans and stuff. I bumped into them a whole lot. They were always nice guys.

“Working with them required a lot of preparation in the sense that the group hasn’t recorded amongst each other for a long time. I’m talking about together. A lot of it was somebody coming in, laying down a line, and so on and so forth. But collectively for them to be in one place didn’t happen for more than a decade. And since I didn't know them that well, it really tested my production chops.

"A lot of it has to do with psychology. You want to make them feel comfortable, and you want to get the best out of them, you want to get what you hear in your head. It was difficult, they probably couldn’t tell, because I’m cool as I possibly could when I work, but there were few times I was like, ‘Oh, God, what did I get myself into? This is hard!’ But they followed direction really well. The best thing is producing for somebody who trusts you. And they trusted me, and that made that part easy.

“The final product isn’t as good as I liked it to be. But I think it’s pretty good. I think the effort shows.”

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