On this week’s episode of The Katie Couric Podcast, which went live on Thursday, Katie Couric hosted comedian Amy Schumer. During the hour-long conversation, Schumer presented her point of view on the #MeToo movement and the sexual assault accusations lodged against Aziz Ansari.
During the interview, Couric made a point about how differently younger women and older women perceive consent. “I think there’s been a real sea change in, especially younger women and consent and sort of how it's being framed… that’s making them rethink and forcing older women to rethink the dynamics that go on in an encounter,” Couric said.
Schumer attempted to unpack the complexities behind Ansari’s situation, carefully discussing boundaries and what women typically recognize as welcomed sexual behavior. “I kind of want to come up with a little bit of a code of conduct for us as women because I think a lot of men are really confused right now. Like, ‘Wait, this has been cool for so long,’” Schumer said. “We need to be teaching each other the kind of behavior that’s acceptable.”
Though Schumer wasn’t entirely eloquent during her interview, she got her point across: “I think a lot of women feel really bad that they’ve been complicit with things, but we didn’t know not to be, and I think now there’s kind of no excuse. If you have a doctor that makes you uncomfortable, or you get a massage, or you have a date with someone and they coerce you in a situation like the Aziz one, I don’t think there’s any sort of criminal charge, but I think that it’s good for everybody to learn that that behavior’s not acceptable. It’s not a crime, but it’s not cool. And it can still really mess with a woman.”
She also added that she automatically sides with the woman in incidents like Ansari’s. “He’s been my friend, and I really, I feel for the woman,” Schumer told Couric. “I identify with all the women in these situations… even if it’s my friend, I don’t go, ‘Oh, but he’s a good guy.’ I think, ‘What would it feel like to have been her?’”
A few days after the 2018 Golden Globes, a 23-year-old, Brooklyn-based photographer known as Grace came forward with sexual assault allegations against Ansari. She detailed the alleged assault—which happened around four months ago—in the online publication Babe.