Khloe Kardashian was revealed as the cover star of Complex’s August/September issue. A few weeks ago, we spent a few days with the youngest Kardashian sister in Los Angeles to speak on everything from her rise to fame, her divorce from Lamar Odom, to Caitlyn Jenner, loyalty to her family, and learning to feel herself. It's been a wild ride but the 31-year-old star is ready to step out into the spotlight on her own. Besides the full cover story, we've decided to run the full, uncut Q&A for more on her past relationship with French Montana, living with her brother Robert, and where she sees her life going from here. Be sure to buy Complex's Aug/Sep 2015 Issue now.
[Ed. Note: This interview took place before Caitlyn Jenner's transition was complete. The pronouns below reflect that.]
Was that the sexiest cover you’ve ever done?
I've been working out for like a year and a half straight but I'm someone who enjoys food. I like to still socialize, I'm not a big dieter, but I'm finally getting the body that I've been working out for. It's a slower process for me. I'm not trying to lose ten pounds in ten days. I'm sure I could, but it doesn't work that way. I've done crazy cleanses, I've done shit in the past but it never stayed. I'm really trying to train myself to know this is how my body has to be for the rest of my life. If I want to keep this up you have to be active. I don’t believe in a one-size fits all either, just because it’s my way it doesn’t mean it’s going to work for you. I did cut out dairy in January.
What's your like workout schedule like?
I have Gunnar Peterson who I love and adore. I went to SoulCycle this morning, and I went to Gunnar after too. I did that twice this week and I've never done that before. Now I feel exhausted. I like when you’re dripping. I'm not working out to still be cute. This is my sexiest shoot because I think I've never felt as comfortable in my own skin than as I have now, but I still said to Tracy and Kim, “I don't think I'm ready for this, this is too much pressure.”
How nervous were you?
So nervous. Kim was like, "Get the fuck over it, you're at the prime of your life,” but I don't know if I'm ever going to feel like, “Damnnnn you look good." Sitting there posing I was like, “This is hanging over, I don't know if I can sit in this outfit,” but looking at the photos later I was like, “They look good.” But I don't know if I'm going to be on a beach like that, I’m still going to be in a one-piece.
Over the years, a lot of fans watched you struggle with your insecurities on camera, too.
Even my producer who's there, who's been with me since season one, which was nine years ago, she said, "This is the best I've ever seen you look," and it feels so good to finally like get to a place that I never even thought I could be. When I was married or a few years ago, I never thought I was fat. I never thought I was huge. I was like, "I still look good, I'm just made to have curves or be a little bigger." I never looked at myself as the fat sister. Sometimes I would beat people to the punch and say, “Oh I'm the fat, funny one,” because that's what people would say about me. But I never really thought that. Looking back, I do believe I was unhealthy, but at the time I really thought that that was as skinny as I was going to get. You know, everyone's like, "You're big boned." I have childbearing hips. You're like, "No, you could still lose some weight."
The last year has been the most rewarding for you physically but you've had a lot of drama in your life, too.
I used to deal with stress in an unhealthy way. When we were younger and even through the O.J. Simpson trial and everything, we would just eat, but I think my parents also didn't know what to do so they would just give us McDonald's or crappy food. I think that kind of trained me to think that when something’s happening, you eat. When my dad died I gained a ton of weight, but I was drinking and going out and just being unhealthy, clouding my mind with other things. I remember eating crap food and people would think I was having pregnancy cravings. With my divorce and even during the end of my marriage before it even got publicly bad, how I decided to cope with things was to go on the treadmill for an hour. I don't know what prompted me to do that. It was a very different coping mechanism. I felt so clear and I had nowhere else to go. I couldn't be home, I have too many thoughts there. I needed a place where I was just alone. And even if there might be all these people around when you when you’re on the machine with your headphones in, you’re technically alone.
The gym became your only place of solitude?
It was just a place where I felt like I could process my thoughts and think clear or just have a moment to myself. For most people, when you're going through trouble at home or in your workplace, when you leave there you have your space. For me, even if I left my house there was so much paparazzi. It's almost like I was more aware of things because at home you could not be on your computer, no blogs, so you don't hear anything, but when you're out and people are yelling things at you that you're unaware of like, "Are you sleeping with Scott?" Things like that I don't even know and I'm like, “Am I? What's happening?” People are like, “Do you read all those stories about you?”
No I don't. I don't have to when someone's yelling them at you. It's mortifying because if I'm valeting my car and you're with me, and you don't know who I am or anything, you see all these people and they're yelling, "Are you sleeping with Scott!?" I've never been an introvert whatsoever. I've always been so social, very outgoing, and I am with my circle. I have major anxiety within the past two years with the paparazzi.
Does it feel lonely?
Sometimes. When all your friends want to go to dinner, my brother and I are like, “No” because we just get too much anxiety. I don’t mind having people over, but it's weird how much more withdrawn I've become than being social in public places, I guess. With everything being so public, it made the gym my only place of refuge, if you will.
And you didn't really have the house because the house has memories there with Lamar.
I just had my assistants or just people. If I just wanted a few minutes alone just for me, I can't just be in my room or I’d feel lazy. I feel like even my housekeeper’s judging me. I'm that person where I'm like, "If she's up I have to be up." You can't sleep in.
You just bought a new house. Was it hard moving out of the house you had with Lamar?
Moving out of my house with Lamar I had a ton of anxiety closing that chapter. It happened so quickly. I put my house on the market and a friend of mine bought it, Kaley Cuoco who's an actress on The Big Bang Theory. She's still a newlywed and wanting to start a family, and I love that. It had nothing to do with the home itself, I just needed to close this chapter and it all just happened and I was like, “Hey wait, I'm not ready, we gotta slow this down,” and they're like, “You can't slow it down. We've started this train, it has to park somewhere." I was told the market was so slow, it's going to take a while. Then it happened so fast and they wanted my furniture.
Kaley wanted the furniture in the house?
Yeah, because a lot of it was custom for the house. The architecture in the house is very unique. My mom and everyone was like, "You don't want anything, you don't want this stuff, it's material. Let it go and start over." And yes, for someone else telling me to do that it seemed so easy, let's cut the cord. For me, I needed a minute like, "Can I get rid of this? Do I want to give you this glass?"
Is it weird that now someone you know is now living the life you wanted in your dream home?
No, it's almost reassuring. I know it's going to be a good home, as silly as that sounds. I think if it was some stranger and they wanted my shit, it’d be creepy, but because I know her and she's literally the sweetest person and she's so in love and so happy that I was like, "Take it, I want you to have it." She was like, "I just redid the kitchen. I want you to know how much I love this house." Just that she's even involving me, I think that's so sweet and we're friendly. I don't speak to her even once a week, but every blue moon just the thought, it's nice of her to do that. She doesn't have to at all, but I think she knows how much I love the home and I think you can tell with how I took care of it. It sounds so stupid, it's a house.
I'm like that with my shitty New York apartments, I get it.
Yeah, you want it perfect. It's your home. Then, it sold and I didn't have a place to live so I moved in with my brother Rob. He lived with me through my whole marriage but moved out towards the end and got an apartment. I ended up moving in with him. He had a three bedroom townhouse.
“Rob lives with me now and i wouldn't have it
any other way.”
Was it hard living with Rob at his place?
I honestly had no idea how long I was going to be there. It was fun at first, and then I think it was overwhelming for both of us. We were going from this huge house to his townhouse, so I can't just like put all my shit everywhere, but he was so great about it. Obviously he would get annoyed from time to time or when he wanted girls over. I totally get it. Rob lives with me now and I wouldn't have it any other way. I love having him with me. I have a big ass house and I wanted it so he could feel like, comfortable. He's going through a hard time now and it's behind gates. With this crazy lifestyle you have to think of places where you can still have your freedom. Kourtney and Scott live in the same gated area. My nieces and nephew come over at least three times a week. I have everything, my brother's there and I love him. I get crazy if he's like, "I'm moving out."
Has he threatened that?
Yes. Listen, he's a man, and 28 and I'm sure it doesn't sound good to say, "Oh I live with my sister," but it's not because he has to. I'm like, "Put this into perspective, your friends live at home with their parents because they can't do anything else. Your sister’s literally holding you captive and actively making you. So if that makes you feel better, say that all you want." I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I'm sure that's why he would threaten to move out.
Maybe he feels suffocated.
I think so, but I'm good with him. I never bother him. I just bought him a rug for his bedroom and he was so cute. He'll text me and tell me how much he likes it and he notices things. So, I like it. I call him my son as a joke. I'll call my assistant and be like, "Did you guys ask if he wanted lunch?" or this or that and my sisters hate that I do that. I do baby him but I'm a maternal person.
Do you feel like you baby everyone, though?
That's my nature, though. People always say, "Who are you closest with?" I have a different relationship with each one, but not one is greater. If you would say, "Who do you want to go shopping with, who do you want to go to a club with?" I would have a different answer. My relationships with my siblings have only gotten better over the years. I don't know how they've changed, I think they just strengthen. Kim and I are way more understanding of each other. I think sometimes when we were younger we would butt heads a lot more.
Like the episode where she smacked you over the head with her purse for being "fucking rude?"
We call it the Bentley fight. That's where it started. And we always were like, "How did we even get to there?" We were fighting because you made us wait at a Bentley dealership. Or like when I woke her up in New York and she cussed me out and called me a troll. We didn't speak for like a week over that. Looking back, I just wanted to say goodbye. That's all I wanted to do. Only Kim and I fight like that. No one else. I would never never dare fight with Kourtney, Kendall, Kylie, or Rob. Rob and I will fight but we end up laughing towards the end—not even an hour later. It's just funny. We just understand each other more, but also Kim being married is a completely different Kim. Well, not being married, but being married to Kanye.
How has her marriage to Kanye changed her?
Kim is so at peace with herself. On her wedding day I remember saying, “On my wedding day I was so calm and I felt like this is what I'm supposed to do.” I don't know if she's going to get mad, but I saw her at the Humps [Kris Humphries] wedding and she was crazy and then I saw her at her wedding to Kanye, who I always said should be her husband, and she was so calm. I've always thought that they're soulmates, they get each other. No one else in the world could have the conversations that those two have and they can just do it. If Kim wants to talk to me about photo shoots, I don't know what even we're talking about. I don't know this photographer, I don't get it, but Kanye's so into whatever she's saying. They are just how you should be as a husband and wife. You guys should get each other and just feel completed. I've never seen her so at peace, and I know that affects her everyday, life and relationships.
Have you gotten closer with the brother-in-laws, yourself?
Well Scott and I—we're sleeping together apparently—obviously, we're best of friends, but what's crazy is how much I hated him before. He was a douchey little dick. At first I liked Scott. I wouldn't say I loved him because Kourtney and I lived together in a townhouse when they met and Scott basically moved right on in. They didn't really slowly progress. It was kind of full throttle and I liked him. We would hang out from time to time and then he started just acting out and doing stupid shit and it was so consistent. You can say you're sorry 5,000 times, but that doesn't mean you mean it. He kept apologizing and I just started hating him for how much he was mistreating Kourtney. I'm not going to keep accepting your apologies, letting you come back in, and doing the same thing over again.
You kicked him out of the house?
Yeah. When they got back together, I said he can't just say sorry—he has to show me he's really apologetic. I think fans got really annoyed that I was so bitter or annoyed more so than Kourtney was, but I was so protective and I saw it so many times that fans don't see. You're not with me every time he fucks up. He still falls off or makes mistakes, which everyone does. I don't expect anyone to be perfect, but what I like about Scott is that he's honest about his weaknesses and his strengths. And Kanye, I've known him for years and years. But every time I would see him, it was always about Kim.
Here's the thing about Kim: What I love about Kanye is he wants to build her up instead of take her down and I think so many men—because Kim is so gorgeous but is also such a gorgeous person—don't really see that because they're blinded or distracted by all of this that I think men want to break her down so they can control her. She finally has someone that wants to elevate her and make her like this queen and beautiful princess that she is. I think they just work and I've always wanted her to have that, but timing is everything.
What’s your relationship like with Kendall and Kylie these days?
I'm incredibly close to Kendall and Kylie. I'm very maternal with them as well. I'm very aware to make sure the relationships [with my siblings] are equal so one doesn't feel singled out. I love that I am their sister so they still have fun and tell me the stuff you don't want to tell your mom, but they listen to me as I am an authority figure, which I love. You couldn't ask for something better. I love that they want me around, we have fun.
Kylie's been in the headlines for her lips, and her relationship with Tyga, who is 25, a lot.
With Kylie, one of the biggest things is I try to not read stuff. Growing up at her age, having to hear all of this stuff about you is so scary and so unhealthy and that's not what anybody should have to endure. Even social media without having paparazzi or any of that, social media for a normal person you have to disconnect and put the phone down. When this was all first happening with us, you get Google alerts or you want to see everything you're mentioned in and you kind of become obsessed, and you only believe negatively. Our brains are trained to retain the negative rather than the positive. I try to get her to not read that stuff and she has a thick skin. Sometimes things do bother her.
When it comes to her lips, I knew it was one of her biggest insecurities. She used to always take pictures covering her mouth. I didn't even know when she first did her lips. She did them and it wasn't noticeable, but then they started getting bigger and bigger. I saw things in moderation, I saw her confidence and I was like, "What the fuck did she do?" I couldn't figure it out. I guess that was something she just was internalizing. When it's that kind of stuff, I always wanted a boob job and I wear a padded bra all the time. I want a boob job. I'm going to get one one day.
Why haven't you yet?
I did go years and years ago, I feel so old. I went when I was 18 to a consultation and my dad found out and got so mad at me. He died shortly after when I was 19. I never did it. I don't know why I didn't do it a few years after that, but I'm actually happy because losing weight, I think I could do it. They would look better now. I wear push up bras. I would like them how they are now with fake padding. If you want to get plastic surgery I'm for that, but getting your lips filled in, that's temporary. That's not a big deal for me.
Well, the criticism is that she's 17.
For so long, we didn't say anything which isn't our place to, but because she was under 18, I think Kylie thinks she's going to get in trouble. I don't think people are allowed to inject you.
I don’t think you can even get piercings until you’re 18 without consent.
I got my tattoo when I was like 16. I hate my tramp stamp. It's the worst. That's the thing with them, I'm like get piercings, tattoos. They don't have any yet, but Kylie's whole fucking ear has bars between this or that. I've taken Kylie to get like 12 of them done and I only have my ears pierced. I remember at four years old getting my ears pierced, too. It was traumatizing. So I'm not a big piercing girl. Tattoos don't bother me, but I tell them to think about it.
I'm not perfect, none of us are. As a teenager when someone told me no, I wanted to do it more. I also knew you have to experience things for yourself in order to feel that you lived life, in order to feel like I can move on from that chapter. It's hard for people to understand, Kylie might be 17 but from what Kylie has been through and the life she lives, she's not a normal 17 year old. They go to home school, they hang out, they go to certain events or cocktail parties where they have to conduct themselves as adults so they can't be expected to live life as a teenager. Yet, they still do teenage things. Kendall loves her horseback riding, still sticks to her friends that she had in high school and they have college nights where they they play games. They do like whatever teenagers do.
Do you think the criticisms of her and Tyga's relationship are fair?
I mean, when I was 17 years old I was definitely dating. I think at 16, I was probably fucking someone that was in their 20s, for sure. I wouldn't say I was even dating, just probably sleeping with them. I was such a bad teenager, but again Kylie is not a normal 17-year-old and if you meet her you're not going to have a normal conversation that you would with someone her age. If you ask her, "Hey, so what are you doing this weekend?" She's not going to say, "Oh, having a slumber party at my girlfriend's or going to prom.” That's not what Kylie does. Kylie is taking business meetings and bought her first house or she's going on a private plane with Karl Lagerfeld to take a meeting. That's not even what people do in their 30s. You know what I mean? It's a rare circumstance so let's treat this as a special case, in my opinion.
“we're not the real housewives—which i love.”
When you talk about protecting them, are we talking about going to battle for them?
Normally, we all talk about it prior because I'm fuming. We'll throw on a group text and I’ll be like, "Unless you guys calm me down I'm tweeting this in five minutes." And 90 percent of the time they talk me out of it. The amount of things I want to tweet that I get talked out of? It's probably four times a week that I get talked out of things. I'm very hot headed. I'm normally not. I am a lion and these are my cubs and don't fuck with my cubs because I will rip your head off. The Amber [Rose] thing, I don't know her and I've never had an issue with her. I do like to stay in my lane. Everyone can have their opinions but I found it interesting. I thought she would take the same stand. What she commented about it had nothing to do with her. She was giving an opinion on Chyna and Tyga that has nothing to with her.
But her and Chyna are best friends.
They're best friends, but also if my best friend's dating someone it's like, "Okay, do you." It's neither here nor there because who knows what they’re doing. I'm not judging your world. I just felt like it was unnecessary for her to say anything and then all I said back, I used her own quote. It was just her talking about when she became a stripper so I'm like, "How are you judging saying Kylie should have a curfew or something like that?" It's funny that this one’s telling Kylie to do something, but at 15 years old, and I used her quote, "I've been a stripper." She said, "How are you slut-shaming me?" How was I slut-shaming by saying that? I meant don't throw stones at glass houses. And that's all. There was no slut-shaming. I am not one to slut-shame, I have done my slutty behavior myself. What I thought was crazy was she was telling my sister to act a certain way or have a curfew, but you weren't doing the same. So just don't comment. But I've never had an issue with her.
The About Bruce special just aired. What was it like filming it?
The special was hard. The special wasn't a planned out thing. We were filming and things kept just coming up that we didn't know. We didn't know he was doing Diane Sawyer until filming. I don't know how the special came about exactly, but I do know we were filming all these things in real time. And we were finding things out on camera and then I don't know if it was Bruce or a producer but someone suggested that there needs to be more of a documentary about this. It's not some happy episode. We're not the Real Housewives—which I love. We're not fighting each other, we're a real family so our TV show was different. When you're on a show with people that you don't really know or you don't live together, it's easier to be like, "Let me throw a drink on you, I don't have to see you for the next whatever." Instead, this was such a huge thing that Bruce is doing.
What were your emotions like going into filming this special?
Well it's a very sensitive thing and I don't fully know about it. I've never had anxiety about anything ever being aired. I've always just been like, "It happened." We have editing rights, but I've never taken anything out, so this was the only show that I had full blown anxiety for because I was like, "I don't know if I've said appropriate terminology, I don't know if I'm offending anybody," and that's not my intention. I'm learning something as we're filming. Even my reaction is so aggressive and so protective—I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm confused, but I'm also being filmed and I'm not thinking at the time, "I better look good." I'm not thinking that. I wish people could understand. You try going through that on TV in real time and see what your reaction is. You can't control it because I had no idea that was coming. I didn't know we were having those conversations.
We were given this life because you were strong enough to live it! I couldn't be prouder!!! Caitlyn, You are beautiful!!! 💋
A photo posted by Khloé (@khloekardashian) on Jun 1, 2015 at 9:46am PDT
You didn’t know he was planning to transition?
None of us ever knew about his transition. We never knew he was transitioning and that's what got confusing on the special. He talked to us about six months prior and said that he's always dressed up. We used to find women's clothes, but obviously not my mom's. I just never told my mom. We all didn't know what was happening, but we heard rumors. There were always rumors that he was a crossdresser, We always heard rumors about how that’s what it was like in the '80s so we didn't know if it was some Studio 54 thing. It was just a different time. When he told us, he just said he always felt this urge to do this and that was it. He never said he was transitioning. I don't know if he knew, let's say six months ago, that he wanted to do that. I think in his soul he did. As Kim said, to tell ten of your kids something, he was very great and specific and he would tell us one by one, it was way more special and personal. We can each ask our questions, but transitioning wasn't ever a topic of discussion. Slowly and surely one week, I would see paparazzi pictures of him. I would see things and start to wonder.
What do you mean people yelling things at you?
We don't get tabloids. I don't go to grocery stores. It's too stressful, and I don't look at that stuff. I haven't had PR in forever, because all they did was send me my tabloids. I'm like, "I think this is the last thing I need to know." So I legit don't know what's out there. I know things through paparazzi yelling things at me. I would start to kind of wonder if they're true. Bruce never said anything, so we would believe our dad. I don't think he thought he was lying to us. I don't know if he just assumed that we must have known. He's been the most amazing father to us and my dad, when he was alive, he would say, "We should pray for him and say how great we are to have a stepdad who loves us like we're his own kids." Even as an adult, he walked me down the aisle and was always just so receptive to me and my life. I think we're the closest, me and him, out of the Kardashian kids. I think what hurt me the most was that we wanted to be a part of him transitioning. We want to be a part of it. I could imagine that's so lonely. Don't you want people to support you and be there with you? But then I don't know if that's a selfish request. See, all of this stuff I'm learning at the same time.
The whole family is, too. How was Kris' reaction?
I don't know if she's the most upset, but she was married to him, it was her husband, she has kids with him. I think she's the most probably jarred by it. She's wants him to be happy, she wants him to be who he feels in his soul he needs to be. I think she just wants to make sure that her life that she did have for 25-plus years is still very validated. I didn't realize that would even be a concern, but if you're forcing to be something that you're not for so many years, what does that mean? She was questioning, "Were you really in love with me? Did you really want to have sex with me every time? Are you attracted to me?" So many thoughts would be running through my head so I think it's all of those that she's trying to find closure with.
What was the hardest part of everything for you and the family?
I think the hardest part was feeling like so much was happening and we were the last to know. Everyone knew and we were always like, "That’s not true and this isn't happening." We were so protective of our dad. When his special aired so many people were like, "I'm so proud of you, this is great," but so many people acted like, from what I would see, that they had no idea. I thought everyone was thinking this and we were just blinded by love. That and also feeling almost like we're not involved in his or her life. I've lost a dad. If you're able to tell someone, "In six months I'm going to be gone so let's spend these six months and live them to the fullest." If you have that opportunity, I would pray someone would act on it and take advantage. But if you know you're going to be leaving on June 1st, let's just say, but you’re not telling anybody, I don't think that's fair.
“it was the most beautiful thing. i literally get
chills talking about it,
seeing him so happy.”
Does it feel like that person is dead?
We've gone to therapy for this. They say it is like a loss because it’s that physical being, what I’ve known to recognize visually is going to be gone. I don't know if it's like someone has died. I'm transitioning emotionally because it's a different relationship. It’s a different personality. I'm so willing to learn and I want to learn, but it's different. It is a different energy for sure, not to say that's bad, it's great.
You all watched the special together. What was it like?
Oh my God, we're so much happier. We watched the Diane Sawyer special together and we were so scared. I think all of our biggest fear was that we don't want anyone to be mean to him. Just even paparazzi, what assholes they were to him. There was one time where he was honest about saying that he was suicidal over some pictures that were published. How would you guys feel if you were the reason that someone took their own life? They don't care. When does it stop? Stop torturing this man. But watching the show Kim, Kourtney, and I kept looking at Twitter just to see, we just wanted a great reaction for Bruce, Kendall, and Kylieand it was so great. He doesn't have Twitter, but we would keep telling him—Oprah tweeted this, Ellen tweeted that, or Rob Lowe. Everything we would say, it was like this brick fell, that brick fell. It was the most beautiful thing. I literally get chills talking about it, seeing him so happy. I was happy we watched it together because then I got to see his reaction. It's so incredibly brave of Bruce. He's 65. It would be very easy for someone to say, “Hey I've known this for 65 years and you know what I might only have 20 years left. I’ve hidden it for 65 years, I could hide it." I respect him so much for being so courageous and doing it regardless. Everyone could have attacked him for it.
You guys are still learning, too. I've seen you get into it on Twitter about misspeaking on terms or using the wrong pronouns.
We just want to be very respectful and also we want to teach and inform people while we're learning too. I said on Twitter the other night something like, "Watching this is so emotional." I normally don't watch the show because if we are fighting, you get re-mad at your sister or whatever. Kourtney and Scott would get back into fights, it's natural. So I said something like, "You have to understand that we're transitioning as well," and someone was like, "How dare you compare your transition to his?" I understand people, I meant emotional transition. I want to be very careful with what I say because that's not my intent. If I wanted to offend people, I wouldn't say anything and I think that would be just as offensive.
Besides the specials, you guys are approaching almost a decade on air. When you went into the show years ago, did you have a character that you wanted to play or portray for the cameras?
We were told by someone that used to work at E!, "Don't get comfortable here, you guys are just filler because some show just got canceled," and so, our show got on the air. Kim and my mom really wanted to do it and Ryan Seacrest said to them that it was all or nothing. We all needed to be on board and Kourtney and I were like, "We love our stores, what are we doing? We don't want to do it." After talking it over Kourtney and I were like, "Okay, let's just do it." Never once did we ever say, "I have to portray myself to be a certain way."
So you didn't really give a fuck the first season.
No, and it's almost what made it funny because we were doing things just to embarrass Kim—like jumping around and hitting each other because they took it so seriously. We just didn't care. We're still like that to a degree. I wish I could pick up Kourtney more and do shit, throw her around, but she's always pregnant or breastfeeding so you can't do anything with her.
Now she really only cares about being a mom, obviously.
It’s wild. If only you knew what she used to do seven years ago, it's crazy.
During the cover shoot, I noticed the energy in the room doesn't really change whether or not the cameras are on.
If anything, I was more uncomfortable because Kim was there. It's not because the camera was there the whole time. I'm like, "Kim's going to judge me, or tell me if I'm fat," because it's your sister. I was on camera the whole day and I was fine. I was just more like, "The boss is here, it's Kim." She was very into that shoot for like six months, the Complex shoot.
Complex was her first cover, I believe.
She was like, “You need to sex it up, you have the best bod of your life right now. Sex that up, I need to see ass, I want to see tits.” But I was like, "That's not me!" She's the best though. And that's the thing about Kim. She wants everyone to do great. I don't think Kim gets enough credit. Kim wants everyone to succeed, everyone to do well. I think we're all like that. We don't want to be around a bunch of fucking losers. We want everyone to be on the same playing field or better than me so I can aspire to be on that level too. They really are such great people, my family. I think it'd be the easiest to talk shit about them, but I just think every one of them plays a certain role. Kim wants everyone to just excel and look their best and feel their best. People might take that as being so vain and it's not. She even means from the inside out. She's a "let's do it" type of person. Don't just sit there and be sad, fucking fix it, let's go to gym, and she'll be with you at the gym. She does that.
Over the years, people have grown to love you guys or hate you. The most common thing to hear is, "They have no talent." Do you think that perception has changed over the years?
I think people don't get that we had our stores before. The show was never something that we aspired to do. I never said, "I've got to be a reality TV star." That's never been anywhere on my wish list. I want to be in retail, I love my stores. I was there for three and half years without one employee. I did my own taxes, I did everything. I don't care if we're on the show or not, I'm always going to have my stores. I don't need to prove to someone what we're capable of and talent or not—we are businesswomen. What do you call someone that owns all of the Intermixs in the world? What is that talent? They're businesswomen. We've always wanted to design. Kourtney went to design school. She had a clothing line in college. Kim and I were stylists before. We've done all these things that people now know us for, like fashion, but we did them before the shows. I thought it was almost funny how much people wanted to not like us. They've tried so hard to hate us, but it's just not been successful. I don't know why they want to hate so badly, but they do and that's okay to me. I just don't care if you like me or not. It is what it is. I don't like half the people I meet every day and that's okay. I don't want to fucking like all these people. I'm busy.
You have enough drama within the family.
It's never been a big thing for me to make people like me. I sometimes wish I was more like that. Sometimes I wish I had more of a filter or cared more, I guess. When I'm with my family and stuff, we talk so much shit. We've had the same camera crew since season one. So they're like our family too. When I was in Dallas alone everyone’s like, "How did you move there alone?" I'm like, "I have 25 people behind a camera that you don't see after the cameras go off. We're at bars, we're hanging out."
Does it make it easier to shoot then since you're comfortable with the crews?
Yeah, and we're talking so much shit. I don't worry about what I say, but I have to rewatch the episodes for sure to be like, "What the fuck, I just need to hear how that lunch played out. What the fuck did I say?" Sometimes we talk shit about each other like if one's not with us. Kim in the Hamptons was saying how fat I was to Kourtney and I was like, "Why didn't you tell me how fat I was? That's something you could have told me so I can put the fucking fork down."
How many hours a day are spent filming?
Everyday we film. 12 to 16 hours. Six days a week. For six to eight months because we have 20-something episodes. They're not invasive, but you can't really be on your phone. We're on our phones all the time because we have to work. Kourtney and I do the buying for our stores. We're on our phones all the time. We've become more aware to put the phones down. I know we're with each other a lot. It's not special to be with each other anymore, so you're constantly on your phones and we can't watch TV. I would love to have a lunch and have the TV on. But you know, there's pros and cons to everything.
Do you have a personal life outside of filming?
It's hard. It really is hard, but we have boundaries. Kourtney doesn't work on the weekends, she's with her kids and she has to be home to put her kids to bed every night. We all have what our important things are. Kourtney's also been on a maternity leave for, I think, two years. When we're out of town, they're with us way more, they're filming us on the airplane, in our hotel room. When we do the Take series, there's less episodes and only two of us so they're way more invasive because there's only two of us.
When you did Kourtney and Khloé Take The Hamptons, how did it effect your dating life?
I remember [French Montana] invited me to Africa and we didn't even start filming yet, I think it was like our first week of filming. I was like, “It's so cool to go to Africa, free trip to Africa, like hello why would I turn that down,” and I remember they kept asking why. I was like, “Well, I'm dating someone,” and they kept asking me. If you go on one date with someone and it's in a magazine, they're like, "Can we film?" and I'm like, “No, it's a date. I don't know if I like this person.” Let's not bring cameras and put it under a microscope.
That's added pressure to get more serious.
It’s pressure on everybody. For the guy, they're freaked out or they're excited and then that freaks you out because you're like, "Why are you so happy to be on camera?" They were very adamant about needing to film it. They did send someone to Africa with us. I just wanted to go, so I was like, "Whatever." I got to go on a safari, it was cool.
What is going on with you guys now?
Me and French?
On and off?
We're not dating. We haven't dated in a few months, but I'm friends with him. I talked to him [because] his best friend [rapper Chinx] was just murdered. I've spoken to him more recently. Before that I hadn't spoken to him in a month, but nothing happened. He's a great guy, super funny, a sweetheart, but I don’t know.
Was it a rebound?
I don't know if I believe in rebounds unless you just sleep with someone, for like a night or two. I would always say, if you want a good time, if you want to have fun and if you want to laugh—him and his whole family crew are just so laid back and easy. My life is so serious, always moving so fast, so it’s fun to have that outlet to just enjoy and to be able to just let our hair down and not really worry about things.
Going from the drama of the divorce to French must've been a huge change.
Yeah. It definitely was, and it was easy [to be around him]. Nothing happened—it just wasn't the relationship for me. I do love him, I think he's a great person. I find it weird that people are so weirded out by running into an ex and wouldn't say hi.
Well, depending on how it ended.
And also when you fuck someone why would you not...someone has seen my vagina—I think it's okay that I say hi and give him a hug. I find that bizarre that people are saying we had a peaceful run-in. I'm like, "Why wouldn't we?" I don't understand that concept, but any ex I ever had I could call or say hi and it's not weird. I don't get that because I don't like to have bad blood.
So, it's on and off with him?
Well, I think it's more off.
I think so. I mean you can never say never.
Do you think mentally you weren't in the place to really have a serious relationship?
For sure. I don't think I was ready at all to have a serious relationship. I still think I needed time on my own to kind of digest everything that's happened. I think I went from Lamar to distracting myself. Not to discredit French at all. I was very honest with French about saying I feel bad. I still feel bad. That's one of the reasons why I've chosen to be off because I don't think it's fair for me to lead somebody on or to act like I’m in this perfect headspace if I'm not. I would hate if someone did that to me so I don't wanna do that to somebody else. With love, you don't mislead or play around. If you're not perfectly clear, I think you should just voice that and be honest about it.
“oh my god. I miss
[lamar] every day.”
What is your current status with Lamar? Is the divorce thrown out of court?
It's not thrown out of court. Our divorce isn't final. I talked to Lamar this morning. I talk to Lamar as often as I can, which is inconsistent, but not on my terms. I'm very much available—willing or wanting to try. When you have a marriage, when you genuinely feel like that is the thing for you, like that was the right relationship, you're supposed to give it all you can. That's what marriage is about. It's not like, "Let’s see how it works, if not we always have divorce." I am not one of those girls. You took a vow before God and you're supposed to abide by that, but I'm also not rushing into my divorce because I'm not looking to get married tomorrow so I don't have a deadline. When it's time and it's supposed to happen, it will, but nothing was thrown out of court. I don't know where all that came from.
There was a time where it was escalated to that. I even called my lawyer and was like, "Do we have a deadline?" If there was I'm sure I would have heard about it. It became such an uproar at one point that I was like, "Did I miss an email or something?" I don't know what happened. But I'm not rushing it and I don't think I have to.
Knowing how much you guys film now, how were you able to hide the drama in your marriage for so long?
I don't know exactly how I did. I’m a big believer of you don't air your dirty laundry—marriage and relationships are supposed to be between two people. I don't want to focus in on fights or this or that. When it came to Lamar I'm like, "This is my husband and I’ve honored that," and still do to this day. I would have protected him until the end of time and done what you're supposed to do for people you love and care about. Who knows what happens behind closed doors to so many people. You're supposed to be there for people and support them. When people make mistakes or do things, you're supposed to be there, not just leave them. Even with Scott. When Scott does things, we’re there and supportive and not everything goes into the media. I don't know how things don't, but our circle’s tight and we’re protected. If you start allowing other people to be in your circle who don't have your best intentions then it's easy for that to become not a circle anymore. Lamar is genuinely one of the best people I’ve ever met and everyone says that when they meet him. He's so genuine, but he's had a really hard life. He's had a lot of really bad things happen to him. It's how we all handle things.
Did you feel like you bottled up a lot of stuff in for that year or two?
I feel like I did, but then I started working out. I started finding my own forms of release that helped me. Also Lamar and I did go to therapy and stuff together which I think was helpful. I don't know if he would say it was helpful, but I thought it was helpful. Therapy is very emotional. So if you're not ready to do that whole thing, it's hard.
Three years ago, you were the sister that wanted to get married and have the family. That's taken a detour but in the next year or two, where do you want to be?
I've always wanted to have kids, I do think I would be a great mom. I wanted the whole story. I didn't just want a baby. I wanted Lamar, my babies, I wanted to have their names, what they're going to do. I wanted the whole thing. And we tried. There's a reason why it didn't work and that's fine. God has always has a bigger plan and we don't know why. I was married for five years and I definitely had that baby fever which I think you should. I don't think about kids like that now. Do I love kids? Yeah, and I want to be with my nieces and nephews as much as I can, but I don't have that baby fever now, I take birth control everyday at 5 p.m. It has to be a whole story for me. I wanted it all. And I will get it all one day.
Do you think Lamar's still that person for you?
I really think Lamar will always be that person for me. I don't think that's ever going to change, but that's why I think it’s so special. I don't think it should change if someone's behavior is off. I definitely think Lamar's going to always be that person, but that's what made it so special. Even if I had it for five years or whatever, it was the best. I'm grateful I did. Some people don't get that ever and it was magic for a long time.
Do you miss it now?
Oh my God, I miss him every day. I miss what we had, things we got to do together, just our memories. I love looking back and holding on to that stuff. There's times where I'll get so sentimental or so sad. This had to happen for some reason, I'll figure it out whenever it’s time, someone will give me that answer eventually. I think it would be very fucking weird if I didn't miss it. I don't think this is me being biased, everyone said to me, "I felt your love or I saw it from TV." I think our connection and how much we loved and did respect [each other] even how we talk to each other now, there's so much love and care there that it would be really a weird thing if I was like, “Nah, I don't miss it. I'm good with that.”
Are you happy with your life now?
I'm really happy. I think I've worked really hard to be at the place where I am. I have gained so much personal strength, but also personal awareness and it feels good when you can be really content on your own, but genuinely. I have girlfriends that can't be alone and I find that so unattractive. You can't give yourself to anybody else and if you can't stand to be alone with you, why would somebody else want to be alone with you? I am fine sleeping alone. I am not a girl that's like, "Fuck love." I'm all for the love story. I think everyone being in love is gorgeous and everyone should have it. But I'm also a girl that could be alone and be fine. Do we wish we had a partner to do certain things with? Of course. I'm not just going to be with someone just because I need someone to sleep next to me at night. I don't need that. I'm getting up at 4:45 a.m. to go to the gym. I don't have to wake anyone up.
In terms of the fame at this point, are you happy?
I think there are pros and cons to everything. I'm not mad at the fame. I think when you are going through a hard time, obviously we're all like, "God I wish this wasn't here." And when we're at this beautiful place, you want to scream it off the rooftops, but that's not realistic to only talk about the great things. I just think if you have fame and you have a platform, you should use it in a positive way. I think when people do that it's great, but it’s like what can we do? Bruce's whole journey, as hard as that is, it's so great that he's doing it in such a public way because it will help so many people. Even if it makes him uncomfortable or all of us uncomfortable, it's going to save so many people's lives, help so many people's lives and for those things, that's when fame can be a great thing.
What have you personally used that platform for?
I do a lot of stuff with charities and lot of stuff with cancer [charities]. Thon is a big organization that I like to promote. I'm not asked to, I'm not paid. People always think we do things just for money. Charities aren't paying us to do anything for money. One of my girlfriends went to Penn State and brought awareness of Thon to me. It raises money for pediatric cancer research. They're dancing to raise money. It's like, who doesn't like to dance? I like bringing awareness to positive things. People tell me all the time how much I've motivated them. I hate talking about myself like that, but people said that I've handled things gracefully and that how it makes them want to handle things that way. I find that to be the biggest compliment ever.
You've probably encouraged more women to be unfiltered, in ways.
I mean, talking about your cameltoe and being proud, people are always like, "Say stuff about that," I'm like, "Alright, okay."
Wait, the cameltoe?
It’s a fucking issue, I get it, but I can't be the only one who has it.
You never seem to be embarrassed about things.
No, I mean why? It's my puss, what am I supposed to do with it?
Oh, not about the cameltoe specifically.
Oh, I was like, "What do you want me to do?!" I'm getting very protective over Camille.
Even the tabloid rumors about you having sex with Scott.
Which are ridiculous, but we get on. We do it for sure.
Did Kourtney ever get pissed about the rumors?
When she was pregnant she does because she's so sensitive. We would know not to like hang out as much, like she's pregnant and sensitive and we don't want to rile her up. We were filming one time, we were out, there were so much paparazzi and Scott just grabbed my hand, but like interlocked fingers. It was for two seconds and I was like, “Ahhhhh!” You don't interlock fingers with your brother-in-law. It was so weird. It happened the first time we were in Vegas for Kim's birthday and accidentally, he grabbed my hand and he thought it was Kourtney and just pulled it and paparazzi got it. We didn't even realize it. Then the next day everyone was like, "He's holding her sister's hand!" and that's how it started. Scott wanted to make a mockery of it and that's when he like, interlocked fingers when we were out one time and they got a picture. I'm hysterically laughing in the photo and pulled my hand and they ran with that, but he finds it funny. We can't really be mad at those rumors because we do kind of think it's humorous no matter what we do. Who's going to sleep with their brother-in-law? This is not Jerry Springer.
“She's a riot and I love her—it's my mom. Sometimes I want to strangle her.”
I'm curious how your relationship with Kris Jenner has changed over the years. Well, your mom.
She's just too fabulous to be just mom. People give me shit for that, but I'm like, "She's fabulous, she's Kris Jenner. It's not Kris, it's Kris Jenner." It's definitely improved over the years. I'm very hard-headed and I'm very opinionated, I'm just going to tell you how I feel and of course, what mother wants to hear that? But also your mom and your manager, too, is not easy. There's a lot of times when I'm cussing her out as my manager, but at the same time I would never talk to my manager like that, so I can't really justify it. The older I get, I've been getting better with how we communicate. It's weird because you would think I would be nicer to her on-camera, but I'm nicer to her off-camera. It's almost if on-camera I feel like she's turning it up a notch, so I'm turning up my bitch up a notch. Like, stop talking in that infomercial voice. She just irks me more.
Is she the one that turns it up the most for the camera?
Yeah, she'll talk [in this voice] sometimes and you're just like, "That's not how you were just talking." None of us change how we are. I wonder if people think I talk in that weird voice [on the show] because I'm mocking her. She's a riot and I love her—it's my mom. Sometimes I want to strangle her and sometimes I want to dress her up like a baby.
What's it like to see her dating again?
My mom is in cougar town living the good life right now. She's out all the time. She's very social which is great. She's had six kids, raised them all. If I had six kids and raised them all I'd be like, "I'm fucking getting a drink too." So she should be doing that. When I found out she was dating, or even when she was texting back and forth, it was so weird to see her all giggly. I'm like, "How do you flirt? What do you guys say?" And it is disgusting. It's awkward. But I'm like why is a 32-year-old or whatever he is talking to a 50-fabulous-something woman? I say it to her all the time like, it's weird. I think Corey's the nicest guy, but he's younger than Kourtney. Corey’s super sweet, it's just your mom can't date. No ones mom can date. Hearing them have sex was wild and I'm traumatized.
Oh, Kim and I did.
Where and when?
At her house, thank God. We were downstairs and we just heard [Clapping]. It's really a traumatizing thing and the headboard just going [Clapping]. We were like, “No, no!” and hitting each other like, “NO. Wait, shh.” And it was dead silent, and then they went again for round two. I was like, "Okay, check please. I'm gone." That shouldn't happen to anybody, but it's happened to me a few times with my mom. When I was younger, I was hiding under my mom's bed for some reason and her and Bruce started having sex and I was there and couldn't leave. I had to stay until it was over. They were making crazy noises and I started screaming, so they looked under and then I ran. They didn't come to get me, they didn't know what to do. I wouldn't know what to do either.
Hopefully we'll get more stories in your book. When is it coming out?
November. I like motivational things, things that are uplifting. I've become stronger through my life experiences and I am hoping that it can help inspire others.