Chuck: I remember going to high school basketball games [in Detroit] and that shit was like Paid in Full. For real, just the dope boys are at the high school basketball games. In Chicago, the scouts and Nike people are at the high school basketball games. Chicago had a basketball game on ESPN. Ain’t been no Detroit teams on ESPN competing nationally and shit. And we got hoopers that come out but we haven’t had any in a minute. So I think if Detroit had the opportunities that Chicago had, things would be more equal.

What do you think needs to happen in Detroit?

Chuck: The Lions need to win a Super Bowl. I’m telling you. I’ve been telling everybody. The Lions win the Super Bowl, watch the city switch.

That’s what it takes. Something like that?

Chuck: I’m telling you. The way Michigan people watch football…

To get people behind the city?

Chuck: We’re such a football city and we’re so like blue-collar, so for out team. The Lions’ games aren’t sold out but they're definitely not empty. Even if we know we’re about to lose. But the Lions have never won the Super Bowl. They’ve had, like, two winning seasons since my dad was born, which was in 1957. They fuck up every year. [Points to right arm.] I got this tattoo when they went 0-16. This is where I’m from, shit. But if they ever won… You know, the Tigers went to the World Series in ’06, and that’s cool; people got up for it. The Pistons won the championship in ’04. Red Wings won in ’02 and I think they won again in ’06, and that’s cool. But if the Lions won, I swear the whole downtown would change. There’s no city where the football team wins and it’s shitty. Name a city that has a winning football squad and isn't a spot that you would go to. Like New Orleans. Wasn’t nobody going down to New Orleans until they won the Super Bowl. Now it's got a little bit of life. Winning gathers the people in a way that makes them feel like, "Damn, at least we’re not…" At least Sunday and Monday starts, and you can say the Lions won yesterday. I remember what that’s like. You know, your parents waking up after the past two years, the University of Michigan has been getting kicked in the ass, so it’s like Saturday we lose, Sunday we lose. Now you got to go back to work. Why are you happy? You ain’t got nothing to be happy about.

You’re pissed off and your week just started.

Chuck: Chicago could fuck up and still go to the NFC Championship. Barely win games and go to the NFC Championship. They went to the NFC Championship like four times this decade. They went to the Super Bowl once, so I think the Chicago vs. Detroit comparison is cool if you ain’t from Detroit. But if you are, you start thinking, "Man, we ain’t got what you got. I wish we had what y'all had." I wish our downtown was world class, but it looks like it did in 1995. There are no new buildings. There’s no new nothing.

Are there lots of things out of business? I’ve never been to Detroit.

Chuck: It’s desolate. It’s looking like a ghost town. There's no system set up there for small businesses to win, for anything local to win. It’s just greedy, man. It’s a city that don’t got shit and everybody wants to take, take, take, take, take, take, take, take, take.