Nasty Nas is still a rebel to Americaāeven at age 38. Divorce, fatherhood, financial drama, rap warsā he's been through it all. And he hasn't sounded this fresh since Illmatic.
This feature appears in Complex's June/July 2012 issue.
Itās Easter weekend and resurrection is in the air. While Christians mark the day Godās son rose from the dead, there is talk of a holographic 2Pac performing at this yearās Coachella. A virtual āPacāuntouched by age, sweat, contradiction, or gunshots. A soulless facsimile of someone who was once loved and feared: Lazarus and Frankenstein rolled into one. The perfect avatar for so much of modern hip-hop: digitized, lacking in menace.
Nasir Jones, 38, is not a hologram. Leaning in the back of a black Escalade, heās a living, breathing legend. Unlike āPac, Nas still walks amongst usāgrowing older and wiser, taking missteps, surviving. The recently divorced father of a teenage daughter and a 3-year-old son, he had to pay a grip to his exāthe R&B/rock chick Kelisājust before she gave birth. And just as he had to pay another pound of flesh to the IRS.
When Nas first entered hip-hopās collective consciousness he was a precocious teenager, wise beyond his years. Now, draped in June Ambroseās āglamaflagueā army jacket decked out with studs, heās still every bit godbody. Heās in New York putting the finishing touches on his new album, Life Is Good, and shooting the video for his latest single, āThe Don.ā His demeanor betrays no overt stress or strain. While Rakim spits technique from the car speakers, Nas manages a dust-up at Hot 97 over a missed radio drop; texts a lady friend; glances at a recent picture on his phone of Knight, his 3-year-old, laughing in front of the Giza pyramid.
By the time Nas mounts the small stage at Tammany Hall, it's clear he is performing a resurrection of his own. Super Catās badman lilt cuts the air as the video director Aristotle cues the crowd. āI been out rhyminā since Born Knowledge/Like Prophet Muhammad said/The ink of a scholar is worth more than the blood of a martyr."
The sound is fresh, denseāthe kind of track that producer Salaam Remi prefers. āIf Iām going to do hip-hop,ā Remi says later, āI want it to be something that a mumble-mouth rapper canāt rap on. You better have something to say and be speaking up.ā
On the whole, Nas' new music cuts against the grain. āI wanted to make a soundtrack that allowed Nas to be Nas,ā says No I.D., the renowned rap producer and Def Jam executive who was the other major contributor to the new album. āI donāt have a calculation of what is going on now with the kids, but I just wanted Nas to do what he do.ā
I'm at a point where everything I record is going to be close to my lifeānot just rhyming acrobatics.
Gossip blogs aside, Nas will not be remembered for his ill-fated marriage or his tax troubles. What he will be remembered for is āsnuffing Jesusā in some of his first words as an MC. He will be remembered for the countless jewelsācondensed infinities formed around breakbeatsāand for unveiling ghetto metaphysics to an uncivilized world. āMy intellect prevails from a hanging cross with nails,ā he said in āMemory Lane,ā one of his early masterpieces. No, the current incarnation of Nasty Nas is not a comeback. More like evidence of things foreseen.
Life is Good will be your tenth solo album. Is this a watershed moment for you, or just another album?
This is different. The way you work, your approach, is different each time. Iām at a cool, mature, easy place.
Youāre one of the few cats who can do gangster and Rasta and still maintain your frame of reference. It seems contradictoryāRasta and gangsterābut is it?
Nah. āThe Donā actually came from hanging around Rastas. Thatās how we would greet each other when I was with the Marleys. Thatās just big boss business. When people put on imagesālike being a gangster or a street guyāthen youāre your own worst enemy. Iām an artist. I like to make the music that I like to make. If not, then youāll be stuck trying to be a character. Iāve seen that happen to a lot of artists.
You become a caricature of yourself?
As much as the people want you to be a certain way, you canāt suffocate like that. If you do, I hope it pays off for you, by feeding the people what they want, all the time. Thatās just not in my DNA.
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Starting with āMemory Lane,ā a lot of your records had a metaphysical touch. On āThe Donā you said, āThe ink of a scholar is worth more than the blood of a martyr.ā Where does that come from? And what moves you to write stuff like that now?
I tell aspiring artists: Say what you want to say, and speak what you really feel. If people donāt get it at first, or it seems too heavy for people, thatās just what it is.
I toned it down at times. I started to feel like a nerd when I was a young dude, and that wasnāt what I wanted to get across. I wanted to be relatable. And that was part of my mistake, because I toned it down a lot.
I say to the young: donāt. If you tone it down, still make it come off beautiful. Not everything I did came off beautiful. It came off as if I was trying to relate to people who donāt get me. In order to exist, I felt like I had to tone it down. So for a long time, I did.
I started to feel like a nerd when I was a young dude, and that wasnāt what I wanted to get across. I wanted to be relatable. And that was part of my mistake, because I toned it down a lot.
Was there a moment when you decided, āI donāt have to tone it down anymoreā? I remember thinking that after your mom died, you opened up, on God's Son.
Yeah, definitely. That was my reconciliation with God. As a young man who questions everything about life, I thought, āIf thereās a God, why are people suffering?ā I was extremely rebellious. So when Godās Son came, that was me at the foot of the most high, saying, āIām your child, and I need You right now. You donāt need me. I need You.ā At that point, I started to feel like, āYo, I donāt care no more,ā but even then, I kept it a little toned down. With this album Iām saying what Iāve got to say, and thatās what it is.
āDaughtersā was an emotional record. What made you be so honest?
This is the first time Iām dealing with a teenage daughter, and it blows me away. I donāt know that youāre ever prepared to be a parent. Once you become one, thatās your responsibility. Itās more like me talking to myself, about how I could have been there a lot more. I beat myself up for not being the best I could be. I would ask her: āAm I a cool dad?ā or āAm I a good dad? Did I fuck up?ā And she would say, āNah, youāre good.āĀ Thatās important to me because I started as a teen. I was around 19 when her mother was pregnant. My daughter means a lot to me. Itās just a record that came from the heart.
Whatās the most important thing that you want to teach your son about women?
He has to have his own life. My experience could be the wrong thing for his life and whatās ahead of him. A lot of older people are giving the worst advice, based on the problems they had. Iām going to need him to tell me what to do. Thatās what Iām looking forward to. If Iām here, weāll talk. If not, heās going to figure it out on his own. Heāll take his motherās words, heāll take my words, and then thereās the truth. Whatever he feels, heās got to go with his heart, and be a man in every occasion.
You talked about regrets, and looking back. Do you feel like you were punished for surviving, on some level? Big and āPac are untouchable now.
Iām blessed to be here and be able to go into the studio and record another album. If someone has a problem with how Iām doing my thing, how Iām living my life, how they see my legacy, thatās none of my business. How can I be mad, when I still have more to say and the opportunity to make music? That aloneāthatās why my life is good.
Whatās your relationship with the blogs and Twitter?
I donāt understand how artists get pissed off at people on Twitter. I appreciate a good joke. I mean, who are you? Not to say that people should have the toughest skin, and nothing should bother you... Maybe itās just my age. I know who I am. I know what Iāve survived, and I know what Iāve done. That shit wasnāt easy. So for someone who doesnāt know anything about that to comment on it, you canāt be mad at them. They donāt know any better.
When you get on a track, do you feel competitive with artists, even if theyāre friends?
Nah, never. My thing is to do a great performance, so that the record is great.
Did you feel that Distant Relatives re-energized you, creatively?
Definitely. It was the conversations. It was the music that we were choosing. Those things opened me up. They took me to a different place, and it freed me up from the bullshit. It kept my shit real. Thatās how I approach everything now. I donāt waste time entertaining you with a verse. Weāre all in the entertainment business, and you have tons of entertainers. Iām in that game, but Iām at a point where everything I record is going to be close to my lifeānot just rhyming acrobatics. Itās a lot closer to me and how I feel.
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There's a record about Kelis on Life Is Good that goes into what made you fall in love with her. How hard was that breakup? What was the feeling when she had your son after you were separated?There was a point where we were trying to hold onto a relationship that was finished. She was pregnant and in the studio while we were recording Distant Relatives, and he would move when the music would come on. That was a great feeling for me, just to have that feeling of family. It ended around the time the record was being done.
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There were times when it didnāt bother me, and there were times when it bothered me a lot. There were times when I was thinking, Damn. I had this shit all planned out, and now Iāve failed. That was hard on me, because I donāt like to fail at anything. Accepting that I failed at this relationshipāand it was publicāmessed me up. You ask yourself, How could that person be so cold? And Iām sure she felt the same way about me. It was ugly.
I saw Kelis as Courtney Loveābut I also saw her as a mahogany queen. I saw us as a beautiful thing.
How has your relationship with women changed, now that youāre older and youāve been divorced?
Iām taken aback by the beauty of women. There was a time when I only saw big breasts and thick asses. Now, I see the beauty in the subtleties. Those are even better than the tits and ass. The aesthetics have changed for me.
She might not be the prettiest, but thereās something special about herā
That makes her pretty. No disrespect to women when I say bad bitch, but my definition of a bad bitch is not always the video vixens. A bad bitch can be a younger woman, in her early 20s, but wise beyond her years. It could be a woman in her late 30s, whoās cool as hell, smart, and has great motherly qualitiesāor has great motivational skills, or is a powerful mover and shaker in her own career.
Like Michelle Obama is sexy.
Michelle Obama is the most beautiful woman on the planet. She cares about people. All first ladies have their jobs to do, but you can feel her sincerity.
What do you listen to in your private time? Are you a soul head? Do you listen to hip-hop?
I listen to it, when I get in the zone. It gets me in the zone. Iām listening to Frank Sinatra. Iām listening to Isaac Hayes. But then, I just bought Let the Rhythm Hit 'Em, and I called Eric B. and asked him questions about itāthe recording process and things like that. Itās whatever I feel that day.
Whatās different about that era and this era for you? Was the music better?
The music was definitely better. Letās not even have that argument, because if you compare just a third of the music from that era to half of whatās going on now, thereās no competition. That music wins, hands down.
But thatās what makes hip-hop eternal. It resurrects itself, and it corrects itself.
I donāt have the energy for the women that Wayne fucks in his songs. I need to hear his songs, so I can reminisce like, āYeah. I was a bad boy back then.ā [Laughs.] I donāt have that energy no more.
The title is Life Is Good. Have you gotten to the point where you feel some mastery over your life?
In some ways. In some ways, not yet, but Iām on my way. Financially, thereās plans that I have, that Iām close to accomplishing. The setbacks were my fault. No matter who screwed it up for me, it was my fault for letting them screw my shit up.
What do you mean?
I never liked dealing with money. It comes between real shit. Friendship, loyalty, and love is the real shit. Money is the other shit. I have one way of dealing with money, and then you have educated people, who know how to deal with money, and we have conflicts there. Itās like in the movie Wall Street, my man Gekko says, āPay attention. Moneyās a jealous bitch. Either youāre going to pay attention to her, or sheāll find someone else that will.ā And mine has definitely found other people who appreciate her more. [Laughs.] Iāve neglected her and abused her. I let a person take her from meāand I donāt mean my ex-wife, I mean some bad business from, like, six years ago thatās affecting me now. And I take responsibility for it, because itās my problem. But I still see that as something I have to fix, because if you donāt fix money, itāll fix your ass.
Itās fucked up when moneyās involved in divorce. And I donāt give a fuck. I canāt take it with me, so someone can take the money. Anyone that Iām married to, if I give you my life, I give you my heart, I love youāmy money is nothing. You can have it all. Itās just sad that when youāre dealing with love and life and marriage, that marriage is a contract. Itās a business deal. That messes people up.
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After you say āI do,ā everything changes.Yeah.
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Did you see a problem immediately?
Yeah, but it was a problem I was attracted to. It was rock and roll. I saw Kelis as Courtney Loveābut I also saw her as a mahogany queen. I saw us as a beautiful thing. I saw us as inspiration. People werenāt seeing hip-hop artists get married. A lot of people came at me crazy. But I think overall, we were inspiring people to love.
My daughter would be calling me, like, 'Dad, theyāre talking about you on the radio.' She wanted to tweet back, and I told her to take the high road. It was ugly.
There was a lot that was thrown at her that she couldnāt handle. Like I was saying earlier, thereās a lot that I could tell my kids, but theyāve got to fish it out for themselves. Every night, she was in bed with Harvard. She was sleeping with Harvard. She had all the answers, but I needed something more from her, that she either wasnāt ready or didnāt know how to provide. Plus, she is younger than me and she hadnāt seen all the things I had seen. She was on her journey, I was on mine. In the beginning, I said, āThereās parts of this that might not work,ā but there was a beautiful part of it, too. For the most part, I had a great time being married. It was amazing. Sheās an amazing woman.
She never threw daggers at you in the media.
No, she did. Over Twitter, and there were things.
In an article, she said that she wasnāt going to say anything bad about you.
That was later, because the response was not good. There were bad tweets. She was angry. She was lashing out at anyoneāand anyone she would lash out at, people automatically thought she was talking about me. My daughter would be calling me, like, āDad. Iām on my way to school, and theyāre talking about you on the radio.ā My daughter wanted to tweet back and shit, and I told her to take the high road. It was ugly.
How is it now?
Itās a lot better.
So there are no issues? You see your son as you please?
That side is not great yet, but itās working toward being that way. Sheās a new mom. Iām busy and sheās busy. From what I see, sheās being a good mom, and itās working toward a great place. There was a time when I couldnāt see him at all. It was terrible when the divorce was fresh.
Did you ever get to a point where you hated her?
No. I got to a point where I was like, āDid she always hate me?ā and āDid she ever love me at all?ā Iāve got to admit, I did feel like that. But she did love me.
The backlash is because she loved so hard.
Exactly. They wind up taking it out on you. A lot of divorces are bad because a woman is just being vindictive. Sheās not after the money, she just wants you to hurt the way she was hurt.
Could you ever see yourself getting married again?
Not right now. Iām enjoying life and looking at each day like, āThis is beautiful.ā Iām having a good time. Iām not going to bring anybody in to mess that up. You come around looking like youāre going to mess this good time up, youāre out of hereāfast. [Laughs.] Iām not sacrificing my happiness for nobody and their drama. No way.
Can you read it quicker?
I see it a mile away.
WATCH NAS' BEHIND-THE-SCENES VIDEO:
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ADDITIONAL CREDITS: (SET DESIGN) Robert Sumrell. (GROOMING) Jap. (CLOTHING) FIRST IMAGE: Shirt by Ralph Lauren / Pants by RRL / All jewelry Nas' own. SECOND IMAGE: Shirt by J. Crew / Shorts by JC Rags / Hat by Yohji Yamamoto. THIRD & FOURTH IMAGE: T-shirt by Calvin Klein / Shorts by Ralph Lauren / Boots by Timberland / Hat by Capas Headwear / Eyewear by June Ambrose Eyewear. FIFTH & COVER IMAGE: Shirt by Woolrich Woolen Mills / Tank by Polo Ralph Lauren / Shorts by Rocawear / Boots by Timberland / Hat by Kangol / All jewelry Nas' own.