When Wale first started buzzing a few years back, he was seen as a member of hip-hopās new class of cool. Just like Kid Cudi, Drake, and B.o.B, Mr. Folarin blew up after releasing acclaimed mixtapes (The Mixtape About Nothing and 100 Miles & Running) and fostering an alternative style that hip-hop fans who grew up on Kanye West were oh so ready for. He was signed to Interscope, graced the cover of XXL's Freshman issue, and got Lady Gaga on his first single. Everything was going according to plan.
But no plan ever goes according to plan. Things starts going wrong when Wale dropped his debut album, Attention Deficit, in late 2009 and sold a meager 28,000 his first week. For a while, his career seemed adrift. But then he got some unexpected help when Rick Ross reached out and signed him to Maybach Music Group imprint. With MMGās debut album, Self Made Vol. 1, on the wayāalong with his sophomore set (heās flirting with the title Artistic Integrity) on the horizonāthereās a renewed interest in the once promising MC. As the D.C. native gears up to become the star many once believed he would be, we sat down with him to talk about his upcoming Kid Cudi collaboration, his public perception, and why he wants to be known as the best rapper of 2011.
Interview by Insanul Ahmed (@Incilin)
How did you get cool with Cudi again?
Cudi just called me. He was like, āMan, I fucks with you man, you know?ā We just had a real brother conversation. It was a long conversation but a lot of things needed to be said. Some of the things that he said hurt and Iām sure some of the things Iāve said or done probably hurt. The nigga told me what was on his mind and I respect that.
We handled it like men. Thatās my man. We wouldnāt want to keep going on not being friends. Iām about to do my second album, Cudi is working on his rock album. We just felt like itās time. Like, āMan, we used to be cool. We used to hang every day. Fuck all the bullshit.ā We both had a little bit of turmoil in our lives, but weāre both in a happy place now.
We talk all the time now. We talk about whatās going on in life. The thing about me and him is we always talk about whatās going on beyond music. We always used to do that and now weāre back on that now. If you see our text messages, itās like, āWhatās up man? I just had a bad couple of days. Itās awesome man.ā Heās like, āMe too nigga, Iām good though.ā Shit like that. Cudi is my man yo. Heās one of my true friends in this game.
Will you guys be working together?
Heās going to be on my upcoming album. When we first got cool again, he said, āWhat have you been working on?ā I said, āThis song that I just got. You would sound good on it." The song is produced by this guy from France, Spiff TV actually brought me the beat. He recorded it from his iPhone, Rossā producer mixed it down, and it sounds like a real song. Heās actually redoing the hook. Itās kind of a Camp-Lo vibe. I donāt want to call it what we say throughout the song which is, "Rolling, we rolling, we rolling."
Will you be on his album?
Nah because his is more rock-ish and heās just in his zone right now. When Cudiās in his zone, the best thing to do is let him be in his zone, and heāll let you be in it when heās not so intense.
Switching gears, youāre rolling with Maybach Music now. Do you worry about maybe alienating your original fanbase?
The music is the same though. ā600 Benz,ā if you put that over a 9th Wonder beat or a Primo beat, I could rap the same thing. Iām trying to get my same message out there, but in a different way. ā600 Benzā is about aspiring. Itās about ambition, drive, and hustling.
My old fans know what Iām doing. I do records like ā4 AMā [for my old fans]. Iām just a fan of music. I just like to participate in it all. I did a record with Stephen Marley and then did a record with Shawty Lo the next day. Thatās just me. Itās hard to balance, but I just stopped trying to balance and I just make the music now. Youāre either going to fuck with it or not. If you donāt, fuck you.
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And thatās why I made a song called "Artistic Integrity" before, because itās about what I want to do. I canāt give you the sound you want to hear because itās the sound I want to make. If I want to talk about the fucking sex trade on a fucking Lex Luger beat that sounds "B.M.F."-esque then let me do that! Thatās what I want to do. Just because Iām making a deep song about deep shit, it doesnāt mean I have to go be deep sounding.
Iām the deep-thinking, spend too much money on sneakers, member of Maybach Music. Iām not out there trying to do what Pillās doing or Rozayās doing. I am the deep-thinking, overly analyticalāmaybe sometimes emotionalābut itās that same emotional as āPac for me. What they call emotional now, they call it whining.
I canāt say, "Oh, my communityās fucked up. The way theyāre treating niggas is fucked up." Theyāre going to be like, "Shut up Wale. Youāre whining." Thatās just how it is. But Iām going to give you everything that I feel. Ross will tell you, Iām going to be honest like, āYo Ross, I love this girl. I love her,ā or āI got my heart broke by this girl.ā Iāll tell the world whatever. Itās me.
You previously mentioned that āeverybody knows the Wale saga.ā When you look back on that now, how do you...
The irony in that is that everybody knows [the Wale saga], but the people that really know me, know that Iām just misunderstood. I always wanted to be this likable guy, but itās like no matter what I do, Iām never going to be perceived as that. Itās just not in the cards for me. Iām a little awkward. I stepped off in the middle of the interviewānot to be rudeābut I just stepped off. I canāt control it. Iāll just leave. I almost want to get up there and holler [at those dudes over there] eating and come back.
I have a bad memory, I donāt remember everybody. Iām not good at that. J. Cole will remember everybody. People love J. Cole because of that. But Iāve gotten such a bad rap like, "Wale has a bad attitude." Itās not that. Iām just very to myself, I think 24/7, I donāt remember people, but I love the shit out of all these people.
I obsess over the Complexās, the XXLās, the RapRadarās, the 2DopeBoyz. I obsess over their appreciation for what Iām doing because I feel like what Iām doing is great. When people donāt think itās great, Iām like, "Why? How? We heard the same things?" And I just got the tag as "the guy who complains." Itās just, Iām very passionate.
The same way I defend my shit, I defend other music that I like in closed circles. And Iām also the dude who might flip out on somebody on Twitter. Iām a real person. Thatās one thing you canāt say about Wale, that heās going to give you a fake Wale. And I feel like one day my music is going to have that impact because Iām so passionate about my fans and about the genre.
Itās just so polarizing when youāre in it. Itās like, "How is niggas looking at us right now? Are we winning?" Sometimes when youāre winning you donāt even get to enjoy it because you didnāt even know you were winning this whole time.
Click next page to see Wale talk about being misunderstood and thinking the world hates him.
Do you feel like youāre winning now?
I feel like my fans are supporting me right now, and as long as they do that, Iām always going to be winning.
Was there ever a time when you felt like you were losing?
When 28,000 records first week came out, for that week I did. But then I realized it had nothing to do with my fans. It was a poor layout, like they didnāt put none out. Now weāve flipped that into like 210,000 sold.
Do you still have that fear though? What if your next album does the same number?
Aināt no fear because I know Iāve connected with the people this time. It aināt going to do what Attention Deficit did, thereās no way. I could do that in a couple hours.
Do you have a chip on your shoulder?
I do have a little bit of a chip on my shoulder but itās only in the booth. Thatās the only place. Nowhere else. In the booth niggas think, āWhat? Put the beat on.ā Youāre going to hear it on the Self Made album. The first thing you hear me say is, āThey trying to tell me I donāt fit up in this muthafucka/Theyāre trying to tell me I donāt spit up in this muthafucka/Cause Rozay be talking white, he thinks heās Uncle Ruckus.ā Thatās the first line. Thatās the first thing you hear from me and I fit.
You mention being misunderstood and you talk about learning...
Sometimes I wake up and think the world hates me. I feel like the industry might hate me. But thatās the mentality I grew up in because Iām black. Iāve been trained to believe the world hates niggas. Itās society. Like, being pulled over at church and being 14 years old? It makes you look at the police differently. There were times when I was in the front seat and they told me, āDonāt do nothing,ā and they took me out the car, and they pulled the gun out on my man and everything. Iāve seen it all. Iām not bitter to nobody man. If I was bitter I wouldnāt even talk to a lot of them. I wouldnāt be doing no interviews.
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Especially with Complex. I thought they were really trying to...Iām not going to lie, I was a little bit offended. I thought thereās a market that myself, Cudi, and a couple other artists helped. [We didnāt help it] survive, because Marc Ecko doesnāt need none of us. But I felt it was a company that we helped keep thriving. Them little kids in DC, they wouldnāt know nothing about no damn Nudies and no damn APCs and all that if it wasnāt for me. So Iām more or less the mid-Atlantic ambassador for the alternative lifestyle that Complex is promoting. Weāand when I say we, Iām including myself and the niggas at Complexāare the people in the school that are like, āWhat the fuck is those? Whatās that?ā
But itās also hard because most of the time the guy that was like, āYo whatās that?ā was the guy that knew about the Internet, knew about fucking mastering records, and all that shit before everybody. I was also that nigga, as well as a football player. They were two different people on the social ladder. And then you had the D-boys. I was all of those, I just never sold drugs consistently. So itās easy for someone who is in our worldāthe Complex worldāto be like, āI donāt really like him that much, because he doesnāt seem like heās really in our world.ā
Well Rick Ross is in that D-boy world...
Right, and they like me.
And the Internet world, they like you too.
In our world theyāre fickle. They like me, but very conditionally.
Does Wale just want everyone to like him?
I did at one point but now I canāt because I donāt have a super big fan-base of any one type of person. I have a little bit from a lot of different people, black women, OG niggas that like that old Reasonable Doubt shit, hipsters, D-boys, ghetto girls, college girls, college dudes, the college crowd.
I feel like you have 10% of each group, instead of 100% of one group.
Exactly.
Is that ever going to work?
Iāve just got to keep making music man, and hope God sees me through it. Itās working. All my shows are packed.
Do feel like you fit in with Ross and company?
Listen, Iāve been around niggas like that my whole life. Rick Ross is an authentic nigga. Like, thereās certain things Iāve got to leave out this interview, but I know about Meek. Heās a street nigga, for real. These niggas is street niggas. Iām all about integrity. When they say all that shit about Ross it makes me mad because I know what he really is. I know how much he means to Miami on the street side.
Click next page to see Wale talk about being hurt by Complex.
You said you were hurt by Complex?
I was hurt man. Just because I felt like Complex was trying to perpetuate certain things. And it was a real part of my life. I knew I was going to be good, but I just didnāt know where I was going or what I was doing. Thatās when you feel like your worldās crashing down. Imagine leaving your job, for whatever reason. You leave and you donāt know what youāre about to do. You just donāt have faith in your craft. Then your favorite publication and your brother seem like theyāre like...it just felt real bad. Not a lot of things can hurt Wale, but that did. And no matter what I would have said at that time [of the Kid Cudi cover story], it would have looked like sarcastic or whatever. Itās a weird place in your life man.
Youāre older now, so you can regroup. But youāve got to keep going. Iām glad we got to do this, because I just want to build with Complex again. Itās a different me now. Iām not trying to compete. A lot of us were getting caught up in that, so we didnāt really work as much. Now everybody is cool because we know what it is now. Weāre just happy to be around.
Were you depressed at that time?
Nah. I just didnāt want to do shit.
You didnāt want to do shit? Thatās depression.
I wasnāt really depressed because I was still living my life, dating, and doing shows and shit.
What got you through that time?
The fans did.
Because you were doing shows and theyād still be there supporting you?
It never dropped at all. And a lot of people, if you do 28K it will drop. Theyāve got more rich. The shows didnāt slow down. It never slowed. It was weird for us, we were kind of waiting for the big [dropoff], but it just never happened. And then the looks just kept coming in. We would do shows and Iād ask, āIs the quote going down?ā And itād be like, āNah.ā Itās like it never connected with the fans that I wasnāt selling records. Thatās why I love my fans to death. They were the people who bought Attention Deficit. The people who bought the album are the people who went to those shows. It was a hard album to find. Very hard to find.
Do those same fans want you to be on Lex Luger beats, rolling with Maybach?
It shouldnāt matter. If youāre a real Wale fan, it shouldnāt matter to you. How can you tell somebody who to hang with? You know what Iām saying? Some of my fans may hang with fucking atheists and devil worshippers. I canāt tell you who to hang with. I grew up with niggas like Ross and them. Theyāre more like the people I grew up with than Mark Ronson. I might listen to Mark Ronsonās shit more than I listen to fucking Lex Lugerās shit.
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But I hope the fans understand that the album's not going to sound like a hundred Lex Luger beats and Wale. Itās going to sound the way Attention Deficit meant to sound. Itās still going to have the great syntax. I still want to work with KāNaan. But you know how hard it was to get such and such in the studio before? Such and such aināt no problem now. No problem. But this time now, Iām at the point where I realize I donāt need such and such. I could do my whole album with any producer. Iām so in a zone right now. When I signed with Warner and they heard my new songs, even they were surprised. They were like, āI didnāt know Wale was like that.ā
Iām not playing. I want to be known as the best rapper in 2011. The best. I want to be the best lyricist. If you could read Wale's words, you could sing his words, you could fucking put them in braille, youāre going to know thatās one of the best fucking rappers of 2011. Wale emerged as the best rapper. I want niggas to be like, āMan, when it comes to spitting that shit, youāve got to put Waleās name with anybody.ā
Iām going to always have money. If I stopped tomorrow Iād find a way to make money. Iāve always been able to make money. I want to be the best. Listen to ā4 AM.ā Itās another Wale on there. Iām evolving. Right before your eyes itās evolving. Iām turning into something that nobody can really put a finger on. Ross told me the other day, he was like, āDog, you are about to be one of the best rappers in the game, lyrically.ā I believe in that. I donāt know if I believed in that all the way the first time around. I knew I was good. Now I know I can be great.
Where would you be now if you didnāt sign to Maybach Music?
We had some deals on the table. A lot, actually. A lot of other artists were like, āYo, I can get you a better joint.ā
What is your situation with Interscope? Did you get dropped?
It was a mutual thing. We sat down and were like, āHow into this project are you?ā The money was going to different little places. It was good. I love all of those guys: Jimmy, Andrew Flad, all of those guys. It was just time for another vibe.
So now when your album drops itās like Warner Brothers and Maybach Music?
Yup. No Interscope. And Roc Nation still manages me. I just talked to Jay-Z today. Iāve known Jay for about six years and Iāve never seen him that excited for me, ever. He was like, āI just need you to know that I love your energy. I love your vibe. I love everything youāre doing right now.ā