François K is the definition of a legend. He's been spinning records in New York clubs since the '70s, has had success as a producer and owner of a music studio, and still plays out incredibly consistency. His hustle is undeniable, and his ear is incredibly refined. And though he's 60 years of age and I've been partying in New York for 15 years, my first time getting to see him spin was as he held down the opening and closing sets for DMZ at Cielo in New York. The track selection was insane, and you could tell that his connection with the music and the crowd was deeper than anyone could possibly put into words. As he and Erica Rubin get ready celebrate their 11th anniversary together throwing Manhattan's infamous Deep Space parties tonight with Scuba, we thought to reach out and dig deep to his roots and his history, and sort out exactly how this renowned brand got its' bearings.
What was your first DJ gig like?
Well, I was doing the dishes, [being a] busboy, and doing general "throwing the trash out" duties at this club, so it was a big upgrade for me. The regular DJ there was somebody named Jellybean Benitez. I was doing a lot of re-edits and dubplates back in those days before I got a DJ gig, so he knew that I was pretty knowledgeable and so on, so we came up with this trick where he was gonna call in sick last minute so they wouldn’t have time to find a normal replacement DJ from their roster of people on call. This club called Experiment Four, which was on East 48th Street around 1st Avenue in Manhattan. So he called in sick in the last minute, and he said, “Well FK’s around, you know François can be used. Just ask him to play, he’s got records and everything.” So we hooked it up. It was an afternoon party, for a membership organization for all these people going to Fire Island every year. So we did that, and it worked out great. I played the gig and the rest, as you say, is history.
We've seen hardware evolve over the years… what was the traditional DJ setup like in the '70s?
Typically a Bozak mixer, more often than not, rotary, cause UREIs hadn’t been made yet. So a Bozak, Technics turntables like the SL-1200. But those were different 1200’s than we know today. They were the ones with the little rotary pitch controls, and then the 1100s, but those were pricier. That’s what the fancier clubs had, but in the early seventies, it kind of varied very widely. I remember getting a residency of sorts at a club called New York, New York, which was a pretty fancy club. It was the competition to Studio 54 and Zenon, and they had TEAC turntables. I’ve never seen them since, and I never seen them before, but TEAC was making turntables for DJs, with pitch control and everything. Belt drive Thorens were also pretty common, but most of the time you’d just see some kind of pitch control turntables. Mostly Technics, and then a fair amount of Bozak mixers, although in those days you’d see a lot of very quirky things, that were not quite custom made, but that sort of thing, you know? It was the early days, and I think certain times people were just making due with what they had, and the party was still going on.
What was the scene like when you got into it?
Well I was going to auditions, cause back in those days, they had alot of auditions or DJ battles. Like, there was this club called GG-Knickerbocker that was on West 45th Street in Midtown, and they had a monthly DJ battle in a drag queen club, and I went there and won a few times and got noticed some other promoters who were doing a summer club for a very black crowd, like before the Paradise Garage was open. I got on with these people really well because that was the exact sound I was really into. They were called Sesame Street, and they basically took me on for the whole summer of 1977. So that allowed me to really build up my record collection and get a lot more experience playing in front of people, but I was going to other auditions as well, again, because I had made all those re-edits, those dubplates. It was kind of easy for me to show up and do a little set for 45 minutes and really kick ass, because with those things, I just threw that stuff on and people were mesmerized by all these edits. Everything was so new back in those days, that I don’t think people really understood it very much. I could do some of these things live with records, but what’s the point if you could edit it? It was one of those situations where one thing leads to another. In my case, I kept doing that 24 hours a day basically, just being focused on being a DJ. Or I was editing a lot and doing only music-related things, hanging out at the record stores and getting to know more and more about music. There were so few people capable of doing that back in those days, before the whole disco explosion started happening in the late ‘77 period, where suddenly disco was on the front page of every newspaper and all that. By that time, I guess someone like me was very lucky, because in less than six months time, I started getting interviewed in the paper cause, you know, disco was a big deal. A really big deal, after Saturday Night Fever exploded on the scene. 1977 was the year of the New York Blackout in the first or second week of July. The New York Blackout, Star Wars, and Saturday Night Fever. Those three events sort of defined a lot of what we went through in New York that year. Saturday Night Fever was such a big deal because it introduced disco to the mainstream audiences of all sorts. But up to that point, the real core audiences that were supporting clubs were mostly the gay crowd and the black and Puerto Rican crowd, because they, for whatever reason, were much more into the clubbing scene than the mainstream audiences and suburban people were. But that all changed when Tony started doing his dance moves on the shiny dance floor. Which by the way, I remember reading the story that inspired the movie originally in New York magazine the year before. So it was a very special time for New York, because in the course of a year or so, all these things came up that were just without any historical comparison. I wasn’t around when all the things happened with Stonewall and the start of the gay emancipation movement, where they said “enough being harassed, and we’re sick and tired of the police bullying up on us.” I think there was a very strong element of social protest or awareness and consciousness, as well as inclusiveness in the music. In other words, most of the music was on the low end of things, and The Village People saying “don’t go in the bush, party party, YMCA," and that’s what the mainstream audiences got out of it. But in reality, disco had a very potent social message and that was really of inclusiveness, and in some sense, there were already people who were aware of that at that time, and who were able to articulate this in things that they had before blogs. Like I had a friend of mine who had a newsletter called Mixmaster, and this what the sort of topic that he’d be waxing upon. As far as describing what was taking place in clubs and how important they were in the social context, because they were really helping in bringing people together rather than dividing them.
You mentioned that the art of DJing was new when you got into it. You couldn’t have possibly seen where it would lead… why did you originally get into it?
To pay my rent. And to eat. You can all make it very glamorous but at the end of the day, I only got a job as a DJ because I couldn’t get a job as easily as a drummer. It was a lot harder, even though I was practicing my ass off and I was doing everything I could. The competition was just too intense. But as a DJ, it was a lot easier to just get paid and put food on the table the next week.
What was shopping for records like in the late '70s?
It was peerless, really, because the people who were working at the record store - or stores - many of them were experts. Many of them were leading figures. For example, there was a record store that was to my knowledge one of the very first stores to even understand B-boy culture before it was called hip-hop. And to really cater to all sorts of things - a lot of them were disco or dance music-related but they also had a very very large catalog and selection of everything, including doo-wop and old rock and 7” kind of things. It was called Downstairs Records and they were really an encyclopedia of music. So people like me who didn’t know anything could just come in and in between the back room where all the stock was, and the front room where the records of the moment were being played pretty loud by someone who really know what they were doing. In this instance, some time when i first went to Downstairs somebody named Grandmaster Flowers was working there. And it turns out that Grandmaster Flowers was a mobile DJ from Brooklyn. He was one of the biggest DJs from the early 70s. When James Brown came to play at Giant’s Stadium I think, or wherever it was in Queens before it moved to NJ, he had a massive gig and he picked Grandmaster Flowers as the DJ to play in between the set or whatever. The guy was so huge. He was working at Downstairs and for somebody like me just coming on, I could just get schooled all day long by people like this. I could just keep learning and learning, old Philadelphia, old Motown, all these imports, all these crazy records. I could just drink knowledge from these people so it was sort of ideal for me. I’m sure some of them did get a bit annoyed at me asking all these questions and not buying very much. I did buy all I could. I just had a very limited budget. It was so incredible. They had so many other record stores, so many of them were like mass market and cut outs - they’d be selling basically all the classics for like 99 cents each - sealed albums, over stock and cut outs. They had those kinds of records in Times Square, they had a whole bunch of those. That was more if you knew what you were looking for because you couldn’t listen to anything. So places like Downstairs Records, they’d have all the latest imports and they would play them for you when you wanted to hear it. So it was easy to get an idea of what everything was like. The cut out it was more like everything is sealed, you just buy it - no returns, no exchange. Then they had everything in between like Crazy Eddie-type stores. There was such an abundance of this stuff, it was just incredible.
Do you see these music experts in the industry today? Who do you learn from now?
That’s really evolved, I think nowadays it could be a number of things. It could be some people have put together some really good groups on Facebook. Some people have really interesting blogging sites, even SoundCloud pages or whatever. Some other people just have closed communities where that knowledge is exchanged. Or something as simple as the dubstep forums or for example, obviously our great source of knowledge i think it’s always a matter of finding a way to congregate - I guess a message board or even checking specific people’s Twitter accounts. If you follow Gilles Peterson over the course of however many weeks, Gilles is going to be tweeting about all these great records he’s getting. Or Mary Anne Hobbs, they’re both very keen on all the up-and-coming music. And that’s pretty global, no matter where you are on the planet you can stay up to date with what your friends are listing and rating and so on. There’s always ways to do this. I think that interaction, that synergy that was taking place at the stores between people just gathered together in the same room. I’m missing that, it’s not quite the same. But you gotta do your homework however you can.
What was the process like moving to opening your own studio?
Expensive, tiresome, tedious. And a lot of other things ,but it was a learning experience. And certainly having a staff of 20 people working for you is something that can only be beneficial to you in understanding how business works [laughs]. And paying taxes, being audited, having cost and flow of commercial clients passing through your door and complaining about everything but also giving a lot of great insight on wha works and what doesn’t. It was really a whole different facet. I originally decided to do studios for my needs because the studios I was working at at the time were more catering to rock n roll type clients like Billy Idol, and Bruce Springsteen, who’d come in with guitars and drummers. The electronic music side of it in 1985 was really not very big on their radar for the major studios in NY. I found that very frustrating because I could never find all my MIDI, my synthesizer and computers and everything hooked up and working. Instead of having to break it down and set it up every time and go through this nightmare for even one day, i figured why not build a studio where it was all built in and stay built in. So you can just come in and get to work right a way, that was kind of the main point of it. But the part I didn’t understand is that in doing that i’d have to deal with all the bills and the staff and everything else. I didn’t quite think it out as much as I should have and I kind of got stuck into it. I couldn’t get out because i had so much money invested into it. It was good, I used the studio a lot. I did a lot of my own things as well but it was pretty heavy. Suddenly you wake up everyday and you gotta pay $3,000 of bills before you do anything. That’s seven days a week, 365 days a year. That was pretty gruesome but we did pretty well with it. We had a lot of major clients, a lot of big names and producers. I’m actually pretty proud of what it accomplished. I don’t think I understood how implicated I was going to have to be in the operation in order to make it work, and that sidetracked me a bit.
You then slowed down with your live performances… was it the studio that pulled you away?
I quit DJing in 1983.
Oh, you completely quit?
Yeah - I was traveling too much, producing and mixing. And in those days there were no DJs traveling. Most of the DJing was done at home, in residencies playing the same club every week. Or guesting for other people, but in your hometown basically. I had a lot of opportunities to play but I had to be in New York. After a certain time i started spending far more of my year between London, Dusseldorf, Sydney, Australia, LA, and wherever else. There’s no way I could keep doing this so i put it on a hiatus. I started DJing for fun as a hobby in 1990 again. So there was a 7 year hiatus during which house music and early Detroit techno came out. But i was busy in the studio, or building the studio [laughs]. I started DJing again in the beginning of 1990 and it was just for fun. The studio was at its most active somewhere between ‘92 and ‘95 because it had grown to multiple rooms and during those years I was traveling quite a bit as a DJ. I kinda phased the studio out because technology was evolving so rapidly so I didn’t see any sort of future for providing this source of high end, sophisticated and expensive recording services to a community of people that didn’t know yet they were all going to be using computers. I was lucky enough to see it far enough in advance. I cashed in all my chips before. Everyone else in the studio business - or many other people - they all went bankrupt. Or ended up selling pennies on the dollar because they couldn’t pay their bills.
Did you sell off before you started the label?
After. I still had the studio for a few years. The reason why all this was good was because there was a synergy. The studio was able to function as a tool for the label. I could use any amount of time that was open to put some of my recording sessions in. It could be a night, on the weekends, it could be if someone canceled. For a while we were really able to thrive between the label and the studio, it all made sense. But then things changed again and people began to be able to do all this stuff at home once Pro Tools became a standard like in the late '90s. I saw that writing on the wall, it was very clear that it wouldn’t be much longer that people would be coming into large control rooms with these huge tape machines and gigantic consoles to make music when they could do it at home on their little computers for 1/20th of the cost. The label had started in late ‘95.
And how did Deep Space come together?
First in 1996 we had started a party called Body & Soul which happened for quite a long time in New York. Kind of a weekly party every Sunday afternoon. We had to wind it down weekly. It’s still going on today by the way, we still do quite a lot of international events and we also play in NY three or four times a year, regularly. But the weekly had to end because there was some situation with the building - club vinyl - that the party was taking place at. We couldn’t continue there. Body & Soul stopped in 2002. I was looking at my options. We obviously would have liked to continue Body & Soul somewhere but we couldn’t find a space that we liked. Given that we weren’t able to continue that - that’s a team effort with Joe Claussell, Danny Krivit and promoter John Davis - in the meantime, I took a bit of a break from playing every week for eight years straight. I started thinking of what it is i personally wanted to be doing and be involved in. The dominant theme throughout this was that I was really captivated and so fascinated by dub in general - the idea and aesthetic of dub. There’s no question that it was an underlying and very significant aspect in all my work, including in the studio. A lot of times, if people look back at things I did in the late '70s even but early '80s, it's been acknowledged and documented as the first examples of heavy dub and disco, it’s pretty well known. I think even Dimitri from Paris did a compilation about that. It came out on BBE where quite a lot of the songs I mixed from that time period were featured. In other words, that feeling of dub I kind of felt was really permeating my career and an integral part of the sound that kinda made me what i was. From a standpoint of being a remixer or a dude who just likes music and DJs as well. But it was never really acknowledged, it was always kind of in the background.
Other things took precedence, like the urge for people to party party party. A friend of mine Nicolas Matar was talking to me about a club of his that was just going to be opening in the meatpacking district in late 2002. I took a look at the place I thought it was really good; nice, not too big. Could be very comfortable and very fun place to party. I thought to myself, what about trying something a little unusual. I have this idea that I really want to try to focus something around dub, maybe a bit more real… I don’t want to say experimental because that’s really not what it is. But a little more of a cosmic vibe, something that’s really out there and trippy and psychedelic in a way. I figured this wouldn’t have much of a chance on the weekends because the weekend crowds are expecting the relief from work and they just wanna go to the club and party. That’s a bit of the different vibe from what I was thinking. So I figured people are willing to go out on a Monday night. Anybody who is willing to do that [laughs], that says a great deal about them that they would actually make the commitment to show up at any event on a Monday night. I thought that was a good litmus test of their desire to go and listen to music, rather than just go for that party thing I was talking about. So I figured, let’s give that a shot. Why don’t we do a Monday night event? I started formulating the very eclectic and diverse sound I was thinking of doing. When I explained that to Cielo, even though they didn’t so I assumed they were probably a bit taken aback because I was known and noted for other things - it was not clear that they really saw the connection. But that being the case, they were very supported and they said “yeah, if that’s what you wanna do. Let’s give it a shot." I figured Monday nights, there’s nothing else going on pretty much - very little. Giant Step used to have parties here and there in the '90s, I remember us being quite successful. I also used a little bit of inspiration from what Gilles Peterson used to do for almost 11 years at a place called Bar Rumba on Shaftesbury Ave in London, that was taken place every Monday night where he was playing a super eclectic and super out there kind of sound. Because again it’s a weekday and it’s a time when very few other places are open, it makes for a good case that stuff can happen. So that’s kinda how it was set up. We started in April of 2003 - Deep Space. Ever since we started that i think it’s been pretty incredible. I couldn’t have done any of this without finding a respectable proper person to take care of the party for me and do the production and babysit everything and deal with the staff and the booking. And that’s Erica Ruben, who honestly I think without her I couldn’t see the party still having gone on and been successful as it’s been. But she really believed in it and put her energy and everything into it to the point where i think she managed to allow me to stay more focused on the creative and musical side of things which is what I was supposed to be doing. So I think that synergy has worked quite well. Thats pretty much how it started and more or less how we’re operating today.
How did you and Erica meet?
We got to do something for SummerStage. We were asked for Body & Soul to participate in a SummerStage event in Central Park. That’s how that came about and she was running SummerStage for almost 10 years straight. I was very impressed with not just the way she went about things but with her musical taste and her approach, whatever. She was so terrific. There was no question that we immediately developed a friendship. So when time came to consider all these things it just felt like a natural thing for me to ask her to participate in this. I'm just so glad that she decided to accept. From my perspective there really isn’t anybody else could be able to trust as much as I have trusted her for what she’s done with Deep Space.
How long do you plan on continuing with the Deep Space party?
I’m not sure there’s a plan to be honest because whenever people plan things like that, I think they usually work out exactly the opposite of what everyone was thinking. We obviously are doing it, it feels great. A watermark moment for me would be the idea that even though we started playing in a certain way in 2003, when dubstep arrived it was such a natural fit. We sort of quickly adopted a lot of that as part of the sound we were featuring - not exclusively because i think that Deep Space is something that’s not based on one specific genre. But more the idea and the aesthetic of dub. encomposing a whole bunch of different things rather than trying to separate things, i think it’s more about connecting the dots and joining things - showing and showcasing what it is that certain things have in common, right? As long as i could find opportunities to keep doing that and be tied to music that’s cutting edge and innovative, I don’t see it necessarily being something we have a plan for a limited run only. I think it can go on as long as it can go on. Can only aspire at seeing things like The Loft - David Mancuso’s Loft, which just celebrated its 44th anniversary, I think. And it’s being passed on to whole new generations. I’m not clear it’s gonna go on that long but whatever people are willing to grant it as far as lifetime, I don’t see it as something I should decide. I think it’s up to the people who support an event.
You've seen this industry change more times than most… what do you think is next?
The patterns I’ve witnessed have been pretty much or pointing towards more automation. To use an example, the early 2000s a lot of people had their own message boards and communities were all really different from each other. And suddenly Facebook comes along and takes everything. So that nowadays if you were to do a chart, you’d find that all these community boards are deserted or abandoned and everything has been regrouped as one community. I see more and more of that type of play going on. Whether its a giant cable company like Comcast buying Time Warner out or the major labels dwindling down to fewer in number until one day maybe there’s going to be one label. Software allows for an incredible amount of efficiency thats the good part of it but i think in the process of that happening we’re also possibly just becoming the fodder for people who strike it big. I was shaking my head in disbelief when I heard the amount of money that WhatsApp got from Facebook for something that’s basically a messaging application that rides on top of a telecom network text messaging bandwidth. But the point is, where as before many things were artisanal and handmade, i think what we’re seeing happening in the future is going to be all predicating on people coming up with solutions that are mass market, global, ultra large scale sort of things that they’re going to be inventing. In the process of that happening i think there’s going to be certain pundits that are going to question whether that’s squashing individuality, the expense of this globalized convenience that everyone seems to be totally satisfied dealing with an extremely homogenized scene where a hit record - or a popular record because i don’t think there are any hits anymore actually - but a popular record can get played the same day in Sydney, Australia as it can be in Berlin or Rio de Janeiro. I’m not judging it or saying how good it’s going to be but I see that trend as the real overarching one where we’re becoming increasingly dominated by global players in every domain. I only see that intensifying in the years to come.
How do you feel about America’s general public's perception of dubstep?
Let me steer clear of the whole brostep diatribe and how certain people in the UK feel, or purists in general, feel that a part of that has been appropriated in the US - especially on the West Coast right? And how somehow it’s anathema because I think I only need to remind those who say that especially if they’re from the UK, if it weren’t for the people from the UK plagiarizing WIllie Dixon and all the other Blues artists, there would be no Beatles, no Rolling Stones, no Led Zeppelin and no foundation of all the British pop music in the '60s. Which is to say that it’s only natural that cross pollination would occur and as historically, America has been the provider of those original templates such as with jazz or blues or other forms of music that were then taken on and successfully re-marketed to the US public by British players and record companies. The same way, now that it’s happening in reverse you see how the shoe fits? [laughs] Kinda comical if you ask me, because it’s something that seemed to be totally alright when it was done in reverse, right? So in that sense, I think people should lighten up. It’s only music, it’s not something that you’re going to lose your life over.
As such, I think that there are plenty of really great things happening on all sides of the fence - including Skrillex, who I think whether people like him or not, has done some pretty amazing stuff. Anyone who’s looking at Skrillex as being bad needs to have their bifocal glasses adjusted. When you’re faced with a phenomenon as big as what he’s done, not acknowledging is automatically putting yourself in the ranks of the beard scratchers, the real sort of the geeky music lovers are such purists that they can’t tolerate this or that. I think you have to be a populist. I think you have to acknowledge when someone does something that is really popular, there’s a reason for it. Even if you don’t personally like it, for whatever personal reasons you may have, at least acknowledge that it’s quite special and it’s good that someone has managed to capture the public’s attention in whichever way they’ve done it. And even though i’m sure there’s plenty types of music that makes me cringe [laughs] in country, or other types of stuff that i don’t ever listen to - i have to give it to people who are in that field and are managing to capture the public’s imagination. i think it’s all good. I think in general whatever America can do with dubstep, i think it’s all fair. Like i said before, i think it’s only kind of an illustration of what happened time and time again with European bands and musicians when they were using American inspiration. In every case it proved to be incredibly fertile because those people who were copying, quickly came up with their own sound and that’s always great in my book.
You're about to celebrate your 11th anniversary with Deep Space. What are some of your fondest memories?
Obviously I think that from my perspective, looking back at the number of artists and guests that we’ve had over the years makes it a little bit difficult but there are certainly some key moments which i would say are truly defining moment for us. I was very proud for us to have been the first event to bring Rhythm & Sound to NY. They couldn’t be called Basic Channel anymore, but I still feel that when it comes to dub and the electronic music, the debt that we all owe to both Mark Ernestus and Moritz Von Oswald is so incredible. It truly felt like connecting the dots being able to bring them to NY and get them to appear in front of an audience. I guess they’re somewhat shy and reserved. That was certainly very special in the same way. It’s just been absolutely mind blowing that over the years we’ve managed to develop a very strong relationship with some of the key new artists in the UK dubstep and bass scene like Mala. It’s really touching because i think that in Mala’s case, he’s very consciously seeing the connection. And he appreciates how much we are willing to go to support what hes been doing and it reciprocates by allowing us to feature some of their shows like you’ve saw with Mala and Coki together. That really brings it home for me. Another example would be what we did last year with RBMA where we were able to do the first time premiere ever of a Giorgio Moroder DJ set. Things like that in some ways when you put them into context are nothing short of historical. It’s not so much about numbers but just to think that there's actually a timeline in the significance to what you did that could sort of in very small way put itself in the timeline of history of music. That to me is a great honor and something we should be very proud of. It’s a lot of hard work and a lot of things have to come together for it to be possible which by far is not so much something I should take credit for, it’s much more Erica Ruben’s work that has gone into all of this. Let’s just say the whole team. But it’s truly those kinds of moments that truly make it all worthwhile because we are seeing the new. When things like that happen, we’re truly in uncharted territory at times. Rather than just doing the try tested and found trues and the old standbys, it puts us in a situation where we really have to take chances and of course we see the payoff of that. And connecting with new audiences and being able to stay very relevant with what’s taking place. There’s so many people that come to mind, it’s very unfair. Another example would be this past fall, we had the premiere of a live set between Pinch and Adrian Sherwood. I think that’s amazing. I felt so thrilled and completely gobsmacked to be able to present this. I don’t wanna take anything away from all the incredible stuff that I haven’t mentioned like sets by Gilles Peterson, Mary Anne Hobbs, Dave Kennedy or Joy Orbison and Scuba - who we are going to have playing for our 11th anniversary, so of course there’s a ton of those moments - but obviously since you’re asking i feel like I should single out who were almost like first for us. Things that strike me as “wow!” and I’ll be forever proud of.
Is there anything else that you want to accomplish?
So far as Deep Space goes, there’s still quite a lot of people that we haven’t managed to somehow connect with and they could be of very different backgrounds like say for example, And even though it’s a remote possibility - I was still hoping one day we could connect with Mad Professor or Jah Shaka. I’m not sure how all that would work but obviously that’s a bit of a fantasy those are people have obviously been such an integral part of dub and this whole scene. We need to pay our respects as well when we can, as well as feature who we think deserve the exposure. it could also be while things we haven’t done, wouldn’t it be a thrill if somehow we could keep our ears to the ground and find some newer musical dub influenced trend and start featuring people who have championed that sound. Now that dubstep is a little more matured and established.
I’m not gonna answer your question directly but more hoping that perhaps some of the approach that we’ve taken -- that same approach I was talking about before when I was talking about discos -- I think more importantly of open-mindedness and being willing to accept many things rather than just a small hyper focused segment of music. If there’s anything at all that i’d love to see it would be that we find more people who think alike, who actually feel that that’s an important thing to achieve. Rather than everyone being specialized in or focusing more and more on parts of the music spectrum. I think it would greatly please me to see that sort of approach come more popular with other parties where they acknowledge that being so narrow focused on one specific genre of music may be in the long run be very detrimental to the health of parties and going out. Just like nature and Darwinism, i think things only thrive and multiple and evolve when you have this genetic explosion of diversity. I think it would be the same with music where things have to clash and collide a bit and sort of melt. Out of those kinds of events, like say great unexpected things can happen. Part of that thinking can be a catalyst for more of that kind of stuff to happen. I think it would be a great thing to look forward to, wouldn’t it?